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Old 09-05-2016, 10:52   #16
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Re: European Marina 220 v dock receptacles and step down transformers

Skylark has a 40 amp multivoltage battery charger, just had to change the shore power plug when she arrived in The Netherlands.

She also has VoltageConverters.com - 2000W Step UP / DOWN Voltage Transformer

$90 no holler

a 2000 watt step up or step down voltage converter that I use to charge electronic devices whose chargers are only 110v. I also have US power tools and a vacuum cleaner that are not supposed to "like" 50 cycles, but after 7 years over here, I haven't had any problems.
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Old 10-05-2016, 03:11   #17
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Re: European Marina 220 v dock receptacles and step down transformers

This power converter box sounds interesting. Now if I can find a WYE CEE17 splitter/pigtail I could get 2 of these one for port and one for stbd. We have to live within a 4000 w total power window and our pf (power factor) aboard has got to be at least .90 or better as we don't have much in the way of non linear loads aboard. Apple power supplies us active power correction leaving only our 40 amp charger and microwave as large non linear load pf bad guys. So that leaves startup surge power for things such as the air conditioner to investigate, among other things.

Yes there are allot of ifs here but it bears investigating further. I have the time now to invest in thinking this through and engineering a solution tailored to our ship. We have no 240 v aboard and a 3 outlet 1600 W bullhead mounted inverter centrally located for a dibble of AC from the DC side using short extension cords. There are several smaller inverters strategically located around the ship to carry several 400 watt or less hotel loads. So my main focus is efficient utilizing the 32 amps 120 v 3.8 KW real power I can get out of the CEE 17 outlet, which is a bit over half what our generator produces.

But even if I find that this converter box solution can't hack it my initial notion of a 7.5 KVA transformer is way over the top given the 16 amp CEE17 limitation. Even figuring in a not so good .8 pf aboard a 5 KVA transformer would be enough with a reasonable safety margin built in. That would significantly reduce the size and weight of whatever transformer solution I end up with.

Silly question, can you plug into 2, CEE 17 outlets in most marinas?

Keep those ideas coming please😊


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Old 10-05-2016, 03:29   #18
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Re: European Marina 220 v dock receptacles and step down transformers

We use Charles River isolation transformer that also will step down or stepup
Marine: Isolation and Boosting Transformers
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Old 10-05-2016, 03:47   #19
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Re: European Marina 220 v dock receptacles and step down transformers

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Originally Posted by SV Enough View Post
Silly question, can you plug into 2, CEE 17 outlets in most marinas?
Typically you should be happy if you have one outlet for yourself (without sharing) when on a visitor pontoon. Most of the time you will not even have the full 3500 VA or Watt at your disposal (16A). Quite a number of marinas also use coins or other pre-pay stuff to pay for electricity. If I were you I would really look into saving on your electricity consumption to avoid frustrations.
Personally I try to keep my requirement below single phase 10A.
But you could opt for the superyacht berths that offer larger outlets.
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Old 10-05-2016, 04:25   #20
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Re: European Marina 220 v dock receptacles and step down transformers

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Our US 110v boat lives in Europe full time and will continue to do so. All ac runs through the inverter, dc is not a problem, the boat has a charging system that uses the 220v dockside power. Buying anything that plugs in is a PITA that needs to be purchased in the US, then brought over to the EU. Just as we think we have everything... I'm bringing a new microwave oven with me on the plane tomorrow on my way back. Had I known the boat would be staying in Europe, I probably would have instead purchased a VAT paid 220v boat.
This is probably the best option if you eventually will be returning to 110v land. Assuming a decent quality full sine wave inverter, it provides nice 60hz power just like your electrical devices were designed for (no hoping it will be OK on 50hz).

If the boat will stay on a permanent basis, probably best to just leave the 110v stuff at home and convert to 220v as every time you need something new, you have to ship it from the states or get it at a specialty place.
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Old 10-05-2016, 10:24   #21
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Re: European Marina 220 v dock receptacles and step down transformers

I'm getting some indication there the following is available in many places.

32 amperes :
CEE Electrical Plug 32A 2P+E IP44
Rated current:32A
Rated voltage: AC 220-250V 50/60Hz
No. of poles:2P+E
Protection degree: IP44

Is this connection common or rare?


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Old 10-05-2016, 10:36   #22
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Re: European Marina 220 v dock receptacles and step down transformers

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Originally Posted by SV Enough View Post
I'm getting some indication there the following is available in many places.

32 amperes :
CEE Electrical Plug 32A 2P+E IP44
Rated current:32A
Rated voltage: AC 220-250V 50/60Hz
No. of poles:2P+E
Protection degree: IP44

Is this connection common or rare?


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IEC 60309/CEE is the one you will find almost everywhere over here.
It's the blue one (250 Volts) and has 3 pins L(ive), N(eutral) and E(arth).
Typically these are rated at 16 Amps, but 32 Amps is available too. 32 Amps is not very useful as most single phases are limited to 16 Amp.
Pretty rugged plugs with drop/pull-out protection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309
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Old 10-05-2016, 11:11   #23
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Re: European Marina 220 v dock receptacles and step down transformers

I have printed out the article you pointed me to, thank you. However, we get back to the original point which I didn't state properly.

How common are the blue 32 amp 250 v single phase connections? Accepting that the 16 amp is very common is there a reasonable expectation we can find a marina with the blue 32 amp if we hunt around a bit?

Please look at this from the prospective that we will first be looking for a "home base marina" and we will accept what's on offer when wandering around. 😊


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Old 10-05-2016, 11:42   #24
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Re: European Marina 220 v dock receptacles and step down transformers

32 amps is pretty common. That is what my system is rated for and works great. Paul's suggestion of the Charles Isolation Transformer is good also. Zero electronic's and you can take 16 amps 220 in and get 32 amps 110 out very easy. The reason to have an auto transformer is if you have 220/230v systems that really need a split phase input. 110-0-110. I have lots of these.
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Old 10-05-2016, 11:53   #25
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Re: European Marina 220 v dock receptacles and step down transformers

From my experience 10 years ago, 32A single phase hookups were available at most of the large full-service marinas. However in some marinas it was only available in the berths for boats >14M and smaller vessels were charged for the larger class berth. It will just require inquiries to find a marina that can provide the service you wish. You may also have to spend some time with 16A single phase until a suitable berth opens up.

I know I had 32A at my 12M berth in Caiscais and also when I took a 50' berth in Almerimar with the extra charge.

John
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Old 10-05-2016, 12:31   #26
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Re: European Marina 220 v dock receptacles and step down transformers

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From my experience 10 years ago, 32A single phase hookups were available at most of the large full-service marinas. However in some marinas it was only available in the berths for boats >14M and smaller vessels were charged for the larger class berth. It will just require inquiries to find a marina that can provide the service you wish. You may also have to spend some time with 16A single phase until a suitable berth opens up.

I know I had 32A at my 12M berth in Caiscais and also when I took a 50' berth in Almerimar with the extra charge.

John
Well, avoid Holland I would say. 16A is typically the best you will find in most marina berths for boats up to 45 ft or so. Maybe in more mondane marinas you'll find 35A but typical single phase groups here are 16A. But if the plug is the same, you should be OK. Just remember to connect it with some big-ass cable (3*4mm2 at least).
Maybe in areas where A/C is more common on boats, the situation is different. For North Europe I'm pretty sure you will have a hard time finding it
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Old 10-05-2016, 12:34   #27
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Re: European Marina 220 v dock receptacles and step down transformers

I think I'm heading back in the direction of paying for the 32 amp 240 v since we are 13.5 meters and the wife is not keen on dealing with power management on an ongoing basis. She will "deal with it" as circumstances require but only if there is an end in sight.

Actually we are over 14 meters if you count the dink in its davit in LOA.

If the Blue 32 is reasonably common I hope to find a home base marina with it and use a step down transformer to supply the power we need to our two US marine standard 120 v 30 amp cable connections, one to port and one to starboard. Naturally the primary side would have the appropriate 32 amp blue connector to plug into the pier stanchion.

Where only the 16 amp Blue connection is available I hope an adapter pigtail would allow connection in the same way. HOWEVER, we would have to exercise very judicious power management aboard when doing this as we would only have one half the power available.

For this scheme to work I'm back to a 7.5 KVA, 240 to 120 volt step down transformer.




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Old 10-05-2016, 15:18   #28
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Re: European Marina 220 v dock receptacles and step down transformers

At least in the Baltic, I have never seen a 32 Amp single phase connector. If you can't do with 16 Amps (and in many nice places even those are limited to some 5 Amps) you may be offered a larger berth with 32 or 64 Amps three phase connectors - at a price.

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Old 11-05-2016, 05:35   #29
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Re: European Marina 220 v dock receptacles and step down transformers

Right now I'm looking at a 7.5KAV step down transformer. The input connected to the medium size 32 amp blue connection with two parallel, 30 amp, 120 volt US marine cable outputs. Our vessel size will qualify for 14 meter slip spaces so the higher current connection should be reasonably available, or so I'm told.

This will not preclude using the small 16 amp blue connection via a pigtail adapter between the pier and the larger input cable of the transformer. Transformers are just fine with less current load BUT, we will have to be VERY carful managing load aboard in this situation so as not to trip the dock breaker; so the Baltic and Holland are still on the itinerary. :-)

My wife is okay with this so long as it isn't a permanent situation.

Because of the size and weight of the 7.5 KVA transformer this will have its down side. It will have to be bolted down in the Vee berth and 3 cables run through the overhead hatch, not an elegant arrangement. We can weatherize the partially open hatch to keep out the elements while in port. The transformer input cable goes to the Blue 32 amp connection on the pier and two parallel, 30 amp, 120 volt US marine output cables also go through the hatch, down the deck and plug into the existing port and starboard hull connections.

This arrangement provides the minimum disruption of the ship systems and is easily reversible. Splendide has told us to use the inverter for the wash cycle and if she needs to dry I can crank up the generator and shift the starboard side load to the generator until she is done. Fortunately she mostly air drys in the salon or hanging things on the lifelines.

Does anyone find any major flaws in this plan?

In simple terms we will have a really tricked out shore power cable while utilizing the existing ships systems as-is.


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Old 11-05-2016, 05:44   #30
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Re: European Marina 220 v dock receptacles and step down transformers

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Originally Posted by SV Enough View Post
Right now I'm looking at a 7.5KAV step down transformer. [...]

This will not preclude using the small 16 amp blue connection via a pigtail adapter between the pier and the larger input cable of the transformer. Transformers are just fine with less current load BUT, we will have to be VERY careful managing load aboard in this situation so as not to trip the dock breaker; so the Baltic and Holland are still on the itinerary. :-)
I think perhaps you should also consider a soft-start circuit on the primary side, as inrush current may be enough to trip smaller breakers shoreside.
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