Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-10-2015, 12:02   #1
Registered User
 
admiralslater's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Toronto summer rest somewhere else
Boat: Outremer 45/pdq36
Posts: 682
Equalization

I'm preparing to replace my house bank on our Outremer 45 with probably 5,105 amp AGM batteries and have been doing a bunch of research on how to keep them in good condition longer,and it seems that equalization is a big part of that.
The main loads as all ways are refrigeration. I have an Isomat under counter fridge, frigo boat freezer and this year will be adding a Engle cooler /freezer in the cockpit to keep drinks in and coold. With about 500 watts of solar I have enough juice for bulk but maybe not for the float cycle.
My question is, my battery charger instructions say to disconnect the loads will equalization is going on. I guess this is due to high voltage This could be several hours.
Is this really necessary as the results of turning of the refrigeration are obvious.
David
__________________

__________________
admiralslater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2015, 12:24   #2
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,389
Re: Equalization

What AGMs do you have? IIRC, ONLY Lifeline AGMs can accept equalization.

You can equalize sections of your house bank, just work a way around having some connected to the charger and others to your distribution panel. Would involve some wiring.
__________________

__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2015, 13:11   #3
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,058
Re: Equalization

I just put in a 660 amp/hr lifeline bank in, read this
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...ttery%20manual

It's my understanding that you only equalize if you can't fully recharge every cycle, my goal is to fully recharge them daily

Equalization is 15.1 V if I remember correctly, and I believe if you can't fully recharge almost daily, you don't want AGM, chose another battery
__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2015, 16:20   #4
Registered User
 
admiralslater's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Toronto summer rest somewhere else
Boat: Outremer 45/pdq36
Posts: 682
Re: Equalization

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
What AGMs do you have? IIRC, ONLY Lifeline AGMs can accept equalization.

You can equalize sections of your house bank, just work a way around having some connected to the charger and others to your distribution panel. Would involve some wiring.
Thanks I think. Does this mean that other brands don't need EQ. Or that they don't accept it.
Also the main question was about disconnecting the loads but as I think about it that has more to do with specs of equipment I guess. Wish I could afford lithium
__________________
admiralslater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2015, 10:00   #5
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,389
Re: Equalization

Quote:
Originally Posted by admiralslater View Post
Thanks I think. Does this mean that other brands don't need EQ. Or that they don't accept it.
The latter, but same result.

RTFM, check with the battery manufacturer.

Good luck.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2015, 10:49   #6
Registered User

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Mangareva, French Polynesia
Boat: Heritage West Indies 36
Posts: 513
Re: Equalization

I've had a lifeline bank for the last 8 years and they're still going strong. Frequency of equalisation is dependent on usage and charging regimes. I've never felt it necessary to equalise mine because they spend most of the day on float. If you can't get yours fully-charged every day, or at least on a regular basis, then you may need to equalise periodically (assuming you have Lifelines.......). But, remember that the batteries need to be fully charged before you start the equalisation process, so one way or another you're going to need to get them up there, either by turning stuff off or getting more Ah into your batteries somehow.
__________________
DefinitelyMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2015, 11:04   #7
Registered User
 
transmitterdan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 4,028
Re: Equalization

You can get a small charger just for equalization. Then equalize one battery at a time by disconnecting it from the bank and equalize. Then rotate through the whole bank. Takes about a week to do it that way.

Lifeline says you can and should equalize AGMs. Probably you can equalize other brands but they don't think it is a good idea. Some brands you probably should not equalize due to danger of over pressurizing. Hard to know what to do. If you want to equalize AGMs get Lifelines is the safest route. Make sure the charger conforms to the manufacturer recommendations for equalization mode.
__________________
transmitterdan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2015, 08:12   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Norseman 430, Jabberwock
Posts: 691
Re: Equalization

I have just equalized my Lifelines.

While doing so, I brought on board another battery (and small battery charger) and wired the refrigeration to that while equalizing was going on.

A little trouble, but best solution for me.
__________________
ggray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2015, 08:48   #9
Moderator
 
HappyMdRSailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Mississippi
Boat: 48 Wauquiez Pilot Saloon-C22 Chrysler Sunpiper- 19 Potter-Preparing to cruise w/my girl
Posts: 5,980
Re: Equalization

Quote:
Originally Posted by admiralslater View Post
I'm preparing to replace my house bank on our Outremer 45 with probably 5,105 amp AGM
And I thought my 1000Ah bank was big....
__________________
In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair...

Mai Tai's fix everything...
HappyMdRSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2015, 09:10   #10
Registered User
 
admiralslater's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Toronto summer rest somewhere else
Boat: Outremer 45/pdq36
Posts: 682
Re: Equalization

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
And I thought my 1000Ah bank was big....
And people are think punctuation is not important
__________________
admiralslater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2015, 09:16   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tortola
Posts: 700
Images: 1
Send a message via Yahoo to bvimatelot Send a message via Skype™ to bvimatelot
Re: Equalization

Quote:
Originally Posted by admiralslater View Post
And people are think punctuation is not important
Proof reading, and maybe grammar, are quite important too!
__________________
bvimatelot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2015, 03:58   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: On board in Alanya, Turkey
Boat: Hunter Legend 420 Passage
Posts: 626
Re: Equalization

[QUOTE=a64pilot;1932710]I just put in a 660 amp/hr
Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I just put in a 660 amp/hr lifeline bank in...... I believe if you can't fully recharge almost daily, you don't want AGM, chose another battery
This is a myth that has been much promoted on here by anti-AGM forumites. I believe it came from an article on MorgansCloud from Lifeline itself and people have misinterpreted their comments.

'Justin Godber at Lifeline, who provided us with new batteries, defined what expected battery life should be, depending on charge regime, assuming daily discharge to 50% and full time voyaging:


Fully charged after each discharge (not feasible on a voyaging boat). Estimated life: 6-9 Years.
Fully recharged at least once a week and equalized once a month. Estimated life: 4-6 Years.
Only recharged to 85% and equalized once a month. Estimated life: 2-4 years.
Only charged to 85% and never equalized. Estimated life: 1 year.'

On the same website he went on to say that AGMs are Lead Acid batteries and they ALL Need to be fully charged after each discharge,

'.... here is the part you have been waiting for. ALL batteries need to be fully recharged to avoid sulfation build up on the plates. I am not sure if I can post links on here so before I do I am asking. I can send links for Trojan Battery, Deka Battery, Odyssey Batteries, etc…They all state the same thing. Batteries must be fully recharged to avoid damage and premature failure.'
__________________
sailinglegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2015, 05:13   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Santa Eulalia, Ibiza
Boat: Binliner 195
Posts: 60
Re: Equalization

Quote:
'Justin Godber at Lifeline, who provided us with new batteries, defined what expected battery life should be, depending on charge regime, assuming daily discharge to 50% and full time voyaging:


Fully charged after each discharge (not feasible on a voyaging boat). Estimated life: 6-9 Years.
Fully recharged at least once a week and equalized once a month. Estimated life: 4-6 Years.
Only recharged to 85% and equalized once a month. Estimated life: 2-4 years.
Only charged to 85% and never equalized. Estimated life: 1 year.'
I can not agree with the above, Battery life is gauged in cycles which are not taken into consideration here, or temperature, or load, eg
Quote:
Fully charged after each discharge (not feasible on a voyaging boat). Estimated life: 6-9 Years.
Is this once a day ? week ? Month? 2190 to 3285 cycles ? not out of AGM :-)

EQ, Be very careful with EQ'ing any sealed battery with both your voltage & temp, Equalising is not really the proper term as it really refers to flooded lead acid's & involves a temperature monitored over charge involving lot's of gassing, Get to that point on a sealed battery, And you have a mess,
Over the last years I have noticed manufactures of "Sealed's" (Gel/SLA/VRLA/AGM etc, they are all a lead acid, Just it is suspended in a gel etc) Starting to use the Equalise word, Some started with calling it "A Conditioning charge" "Maintenance charge" or similar, usual recommendation was 12 to 24 hr's at absorb V, Temp compensated,
In the last few years more of them are calling EQ (I guess as the major downside to sealed is not being able to EQ, That was affecting sale's & reputation ?)
Tim
__________________
blackswan555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2015, 14:30   #14
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2005
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 4,583
Re: Equalization

Quote:
Originally Posted by admiralslater View Post
Thanks I think. Does this mean that other brands don't need EQ. Or that they don't accept it.
Also the main question was about disconnecting the loads but as I think about it that has more to do with specs of equipment I guess. Wish I could afford lithium
As I understand it, Lifeline did not start recommending equalization till they started having many premature failures in the field. Other AGM manufacturers also will try equalization once they see a failure.
__________________
Paul L
http://svjeorgia.blogspot.com
Paul L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2015, 16:38   #15
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,058
Equalization

[QUOTE=sailinglegend;1934428]
Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I just put in a 660 amp/hr

This is a myth that has been much promoted on here by anti-AGM forumites. I believe it came from an article on MorgansCloud from Lifeline itself and people have misinterpreted their comments.



'Justin Godber at Lifeline, who provided us with new batteries, defined what expected battery life should be, depending on charge regime, assuming daily discharge to 50% and full time voyaging:





Fully charged after each discharge (not feasible on a voyaging boat). Estimated life: 6-9 Years.

Fully recharged at least once a week and equalized once a month. Estimated life: 4-6 Years.

Only recharged to 85% and equalized once a month. Estimated life: 2-4 years.

Only charged to 85% and never equalized. Estimated life: 1 year.'



On the same website he went on to say that AGMs are Lead Acid batteries and they ALL Need to be fully charged after each discharge,



'.... here is the part you have been waiting for. ALL batteries need to be fully recharged to avoid sulfation build up on the plates. I am not sure if I can post links on here so before I do I am asking. I can send links for Trojan Battery, Deka Battery, Odyssey Batteries, etc…They all state the same thing. Batteries must be fully recharged to avoid damage and premature failure.'

Yep,
Your right, I talked to him as well and agree with the numbers you posted.

Now you say, fully recharging is not feasible on a cruising boat, so which one of the other regimes are you going to be able to achieve, and how?
A marina at least once a week? I agree all LA batteries will suffer from not being fully recharged, some more than others, but all of them's life will be shortened.
Now Lifeline AGM's cost around 300% more that golf cart FLA's, and if you cannot recharge them daily, will not last any longer.
So what are you getting for having paid three times as much?

I can't afford that, so I'm doing the impossible and recharging them to 100% every day I have good sunlight, and will run the generator when I don't, as I can't afford $900 to $1,800 a yr battery budget.

I still say if you can't fully recharge an AGM, you don't want AGM's

I've seen people who fully recharge AGM's every cycle get as much a ten years out of them, but if I can't get at least five, I can't make them make sense myself.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
equalization

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Battery Life and Equalization Charge Curtis Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 22 18-03-2009 10:06
Equalization Necessary? SCCatSailor Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 5 17-03-2009 15:20
Equalization Question Extemporaneous Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 7 23-02-2009 21:06
Iota chargers and equalization witzgall Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 11 21-07-2008 09:34
Lead-acid battery equalization phorvati Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 22 01-01-2007 14:25



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:42.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.