Engine Driven Generator

[go sailing]

Hi I have a 3 kw 230 v generator mounted on a d1 30 volvo it is a unit that is made in Israel and has 2 main components a 40v dc alternator like a normal alternator and a inverter box that converts the power into 230v 50 hrz square wave form. It is stepped up 5 to 1 on crank pulley so out put is good with low revs the hrz dont change with the revs only the out put only downside is that it wont run anything with a chip eg computer etc

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[Saltyhog]

Originally Posted by tdoster

I have to disagree, especially after investing less than $300 thus far. There are a couple left on Ebay for $250.

If you spend more time motoring (traveling the ICW, etc.) then it is more efficient to create AC directly then it is to invert it from DC. The unit does not require a constant speed if you purchase the regulator - It is good from about 1400 through 3600. The unit is much safer than high amp DC. They are used on Rescue/Fire Vehicles and grounds and shorts wont ruin your day.

And even starting the 16K a/c in heat mode, did not notice any more of a load on the belt than my 100 amp alt. And it produced far less heat than my 100 amp alt after testing.

The proof is in the long run, but so far in testing it, I think it will suit my needs and only add 40 lbs to the boat.

New Fabco Power Power Mite 110 Belt Driven Generating System | eBay

I think you may be misinformed about the regulator. The Powermite appears to be a basic AC generator head. If you read the specs on their site, it is rated at 3600 RPM. With proper pulley ratios, engine speed could be at 1200-1500 RPM, but the generator head must spin at 3600 RPM, or the power frequency will not be 60 Hz. The regulator they sell simply regulates voltage, but I can't see how it could control frequency. In emergency vehicles, these are often used to run emergency lighting, where the frequency is not as important. But to run on-board A/C, I think you want to be at around the right frequency. I could be wrong about this and maybe they have some new and very novel generator head, but I'd bet not.

In any event, it seems like a pretty easy way to give yourself a simple generator on board for not a lot of money. You could probably even use it underway with the caveat that engine RPM could not be varied from the set value. If for no other reason than to be able to cool off the boat for an hour or two on those really hot Chesapeake evenings. I wouldn't run it 24/7, but for occasional use, it's a reasonable solution.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by tdoster

I have to disagree, especially after investing less than $300 thus far. There are a couple left on Ebay for $250.

If you spend more time motoring (traveling the ICW, etc.) then it is more efficient to create AC directly then it is to invert it from DC. The unit does not require a constant speed if you purchase the regulator - It is good from about 1400 through 3600. The unit is much safer than high amp DC. They are used on Rescue/Fire Vehicles and grounds and shorts wont ruin your day.

And even starting the 16K a/c in heat mode, did not notice any more of a load on the belt than my 100 amp alt. And it produced far less heat than my 100 amp alt after testing.

The proof is in the long run, but so far in testing it, I think it will suit my needs and only add 40 lbs to the boat.

New Fabco Power Power Mite 110 Belt Driven Generating System | eBay

I agree (with disagreeing). You won't have much luck running an airconditioner from an inverter and battery bank.

I looked into one of the engine driven alternator/inverter systems to be able to run the AC. It's been pushed to the back burner because we find ourselves able to cope with just fans most of the time.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by tdoster

I have to disagree, especially after investing less than $300 thus far. There are a couple left on Ebay for $250.

If you spend more time motoring (traveling the ICW, etc.) then it is more efficient to create AC directly then it is to invert it from DC. The unit does not require a constant speed if you purchase the regulator - It is good from about 1400 through 3600. The unit is much safer than high amp DC. They are used on Rescue/Fire Vehicles and grounds and shorts wont ruin your day.

And even starting the 16K a/c in heat mode, did not notice any more of a load on the belt than my 100 amp alt. And it produced far less heat than my 100 amp alt after testing.

The proof is in the long run, but so far in testing it, I think it will suit my needs and only add 40 lbs to the boat.

New Fabco Power Power Mite 110 Belt Driven Generating System | eBay

If you vary the RPM from 1400 to 3600, you will have a proportional variation in the frequency. Will your AC handle that? If 60 cycles is in the middle of that range (your best case), then the output power frequency will vary from 33.6 herz to 86.4 herz. The voltage regulator only deals with voltage, not frequency.

I guess this could be an ok solution if you are planning to use the power only when you're running the engine at a specific RPM which produces a frequency usable by your AC system. But I would be careful about ruining the air conditioner with too high and, especially, too low frequency power.

[go sailing]

The issue with running AC off any of these generators is the inrush current on start up possibly 2 to 3 time normal current load for a short time different with a watermaker as motor is starting under no load so little inrush current.

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[tdoster]

Originally Posted by Saltyhog

I think you may be misinformed about the regulator. The Powermite appears to be a basic AC generator head.

Agree about the freq. We are testing now and will update with the findings. At this point, the way I am geared off the flywheel now, the engine must run around 1500. Have a budy who will scope the frequency and wave next week, but I am able to run everything at that sweet spot, including the AC (with smartstart) - not all at one time, obviously. Even though my electrical engineer budy told me not to run anything until he scopes it.

[tdoster]

Originally Posted by go sailing

The issue with running AC off any of these generators is the inrush current on start up possibly 2 to 3 time normal current load for a short time different with a watermaker as motor is starting under no load so little inrush current.

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Smartstart solves that problem. With Smartstart, you can easily start and run a 16K BTU with a Honda EU2000

[tdoster]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

If you vary the RPM from 1400 to 3600, you will have a proportional variation in the frequency. Will your AC handle that? If 60 cycles is in the middle of that range (your best case), then the output power frequency will vary from 33.6 herz to 86.4 herz. The voltage regulator only deals with voltage, not frequency.

I guess this could be an ok solution if you are planning to use the power only when you're running the engine at a specific RPM which produces a frequency usable by your AC system. But I would be careful about ruining the air conditioner with too high and, especially, too low frequency power.

Yes, we will scope it and see how variable it truly is.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

If you vary the RPM from 1400 to 3600, you will have a proportional variation in the frequency. Will your AC handle that? If 60 cycles is in the middle of that range (your best case), then the output power frequency will vary from 33.6 herz to 86.4 herz. The voltage regulator only deals with voltage, not frequency..

The ones with the inverters work just like the portable Honda inverter generators. The frequency is independent of the RPM. You just have to run the engine at an RPM that will supply the required current.

[go sailing]

The unit I have is an energo tec and voltage and hz is constant what ever the revs but output kw increases with revs eg 800 w at idle thru to 3000 + at 1800 revs

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[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rwidman

The ones with the inverters work just like the portable Honda inverter generators. The frequency is independent of the RPM. You just have to run the engine at an RPM that will supply the required current.

Indeed. But the OP does nit have that type.

[tdoster]

OK, here is what we found thus far.



Not happy with the range or changing the pulley and run it as is at a specific RPM range. The frequency is far too variable and would be too easy to forget when motoring and changing speeds. Too many things to think about.



We have not tested the regulator yet. There is not much information on it, but we found one on Ebay to test. should have it this week. We think it may just be an inverter at low speeds and voltage limiter at higher speeds.





We are building a test bench for this compared to a 200 amp alternator tied to a 6HP variable speed electric motor. Will update as we go.



We are moving in the direction similar to the inverter generators. Starting with AC, converting to DC, then inverting back to AC. Sounds like it is less efficient than just connecting a 200 amp Balmar to a inverter, but the electrical engineer helping me with this believes this is the right direction to solve the problem. We'll see...



The easiest way is using one of the hydraulic units from the same company. The same principal used on aircraft. At full price, that would be the way to go.



Again, what I am out to solve is the ability to run an air conditioning while motoring at variable speeds without having to run the genset. And have it be able to run reliably for 6-8 hours per day.

[brantleychuck]

I love that goal.. I wish I knew more about electronics. I just love the honda 2000. I have wished for something about the size of a large alternator driven by my prime mover that would do what the honda does as far as electrical output without the little engine.


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[nimblemotors]

Might consider using an automotive Aircon system where the engine will spin the a/c compressor if that is the goal.

Originally Posted by tdoster

OK, here is what we found thus far.



Not happy with the range or changing the pulley and run it as is at a specific RPM range. The frequency is far too variable and would be too easy to forget when motoring and changing speeds. Too many things to think about.



We have not tested the regulator yet. There is not much information on it, but we found one on Ebay to test. should have it this week. We think it may just be an inverter at low speeds and voltage limiter at higher speeds.





We are building a test bench for this compared to a 200 amp alternator tied to a 6HP variable speed electric motor. Will update as we go.



We are moving in the direction similar to the inverter generators. Starting with AC, converting to DC, then inverting back to AC. Sounds like it is less efficient than just connecting a 200 amp Balmar to a inverter, but the electrical engineer helping me with this believes this is the right direction to solve the problem. We'll see...



The easiest way is using one of the hydraulic units from the same company. The same principal used on aircraft. At full price, that would be the way to go.



Again, what I am out to solve is the ability to run an air conditioning while motoring at variable speeds without having to run the genset. And have it be able to run reliably for 6-8 hours per day.

[hpeer]

I think I would just buy some additional batteries and add a battery bank.

You can still charge it when running. And then you have it available later.

My gut feel says that would be more efficient and convenient.