Engine Alternator to charge House batteries?

[Pblais]

The regulators in the alternators could be disabled to use an external regulator. You do need an overall plan before you do anything. It's going to be based on the details of what you have and how much you can spend. AGM batteries I personally like but can't have in this boat because I can't charge them properly. My gear will only handle flood batteries. AGMs charge faster but you need the right gear and treating them poorly will have a negative payback vs a positive one. You can trash them easier!

You are sitting on a lot of money invested in the batteries and maximizing them I think is where you are financially better off.

With your deck space adding solar could be a good option and they need regulation too. Coming up with one solution to manage all this is what you really need. If you plan to do this, now is the time to make some decisions before you spend more money.

[Andina]

Those are some fancy and unnecessarily expensive solutions. Thousands of our customers have used a Combiner100 between each battery and the house battery with no problems. Either or both engines running will charge the house bank. All batteries are isolated when not charging or if a load exceeds the alternator output. Since they are bi-directional, just one engine running will even charge the other starting battery after giving proirity to the house bank.

[John Duckworth]

Andina

This Combiner 100 seems like magic, and will do what I want it to do IF it is true!

As I have two engines each charging their own starting battery and the "House" batteries. If I get two "Combiner 100"'s (one on each alternator) will that cause a problem? I tend to run both engines together. Will one cause "interference" with the other? Do I still need the "Centerfielder" suggested earlier?

Do I need to run a Combiner in conjunction with the Battery Isolaters that were suggested earlier in this discussion? They also look a good solution.

John

[Codacap]

You will need a couple of products made by Balmar. Go to their site and read about the options. This is not difficult once you understand the necessary equipment.

[Andina]

Originally Posted by John Duckworth

Andina

This Combiner 100 seems like magic, and will do what I want it to do IF it is true!

As I have two engines each charging their own starting battery and the "House" batteries. If I get two "Combiner 100"'s (one on each alternator) will that cause a problem? I tend to run both engines together. Will one cause "interference" with the other? Do I still need the "Centerfielder" suggested earlier?

Do I need to run a Combiner in conjunction with the Battery Isolaters that were suggested earlier in this discussion? They also look a good solution.

John

We invented the Combiner in 1992-3. We have sold thousands to dual engine boats with both charging the same house bank and we have never had any problems. The installation is simple, just battery to battery so you don't have to mess with the alternator connections or add diodes that have a built in voltage drop or unnecessarily complex charging systems.

Despite all the stories you hear about regulators fighting each other, I've never seen such a situation and not sure if anyone knows how they supposedly fight. An alternator regulator doesn't know and can't detect that there is another one on line to fight, all they see is the battery voltage and control the charging to correspond.

At the find detail level, no two multi-stage regulators will have the same threshold values. So both will charge during the bulk stage until one of the reaches its threshold. At that stage the other one will still be giving bulk charge while one drops to a lower charge. So far as the batteries are concerned it is just tapering off, they don't know or care where the charge is coming from. After a short while the second one will reach its threshold setting and then both will be in the next stage.. There is no "fighting" just perhaps a "disagreement" on WHEN to switch but it makes no difference to the batteries or the alternators.

[goboatingnow]

Correct, fighting alternators is as electrical impossibility. It's just two parallel imperfect voltage sources. But like old wives tales dual alternator voodoo electrics have been doing the rounds forever.

Dave

[btrayfors]

The "fighting" word is just imprecise terminology of what happens.

Andina described what is meant in the last two paragraphs of the last post. After saying in the first paragraph that there's no "fighting", he goes on in the second paragraph to describe just that.....or what most people mean when they use the term, albeit incorrectly in electrical terms.

"Despite all the stories you hear about regulators fighting each other, I've never seen such a situation and not sure if anyone knows how they supposedly fight. An alternator regulator doesn't know and can't detect that there is another one on line to fight, all they see is the battery voltage and control the charging to correspond.

At the find detail level, no two multi-stage regulators will have the same threshold values. So both will charge during the bulk stage until one of the reaches its threshold. At that stage the other one will still be giving bulk charge while one drops to a lower charge. So far as the batteries are concerned it is just tapering off, they don't know or care where the charge is coming from. After a short while the second one will reach its threshold setting and then both will be in the next stage.. There is no "fighting" just perhaps a "disagreement" on WHEN to switch but it makes no difference to the batteries or the alternators."

(bolding mine)

The issue isn't whether or not the alternators or the batteries "care" about the "disagreement" or "fighting" resulting from one regulator sensing higher voltage because of the other alternator or other charging source....

....rather, the issue is whether or not the charging source(s) -- alternators, battery chargers, generators, solar panels, wind generators, or whatever -- are supplying all the current the batteries can accept at a given state of charge.

Bill

[colemj]

Originally Posted by John Duckworth

Andina

This Combiner 100 seems like magic, and will do what I want it to do IF it is true!

As I have two engines each charging their own starting battery and the "House" batteries. If I get two "Combiner 100"'s (one on each alternator) will that cause a problem? I tend to run both engines together. Will one cause "interference" with the other? Do I still need the "Centerfielder" suggested earlier?

Do I need to run a Combiner in conjunction with the Battery Isolaters that were suggested earlier in this discussion? They also look a good solution.

John

John,

We have two engines - one with a 60A alternator and one with a 100A alternator - and had two Yandina 70A combiners (older ones were 70A). Everything worked great for 14yrs until a lightning strike took out the combiners (and almost everything else on the boat). We now have Blue Seas combiners and everything works great again. No particular reason we did not go for the Yandina again, other than the design changed and would have required me to change the wiring a bit. The BS allowed for a simple drop in replacement. I could have probably taken Yandina up on the lifetime guarantee, but the logistics were such where we are now that shipping, etc would have cost just as much as buying them again.

The Yandina combiners work very well and you won't go wrong. You will also get the best support and warrantee in the industry.

Mark

[goboatingnow]

....rather, the issue is whether or not the charging source(s) -- alternators, battery chargers, generators, solar panels, wind generators, or whatever -- are supplying all the current the batteries can accept at a given state of charge.

If the batteries can take it , the charge sources will supply it as long as the their settings are correct, It doesn't matter what the various cutoff voltages are in reality ( unless there mad settings).

Remember in the final stages of battery charging ( absorption) the current flowing is very small in comparison.

Dave

[macpowell]

Blue sea has an auto sensening charge controller I use to control different banks of batteries or house and starter, it is a nobrainer hook it up and don't worry solution. I have about the same amp hours, full size 110 fridge, and don't hook up to the dock electric, about 800 watts of solar and a wind gen. I use golf cart batteries, rarely run my single engine on my cat, 70 amp alternator. ,you are only suppose to dischare 50percent so 800 amps isnt 800 is not available with lead acid ,Mac

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by macpowell

Blue sea has an auto sensening charge controller I use to control different banks of batteries or house and starter, it is a nobrainer hook it up and don't worry solution. I have about the same amp hours, full size 110 fridge, and don't hook up to the dock electric, about 800 watts of solar and a wind gen. I use golf cart batteries, rarely run my single engine on my cat, 70 amp alternator. ,you are only suppose to dischare 50percent so 800 amps isnt 800 is not available with lead acid ,Mac

Which Blue Seas item are you referring to?

[macpowell]

ACR,auto charging relay

[mitiempo]

From your description I thought you meant something different than a combiner. Blue Seas ACR's are excellent products.

[sailinglegend]

Originally Posted by btrayfors

...........rather, the issue is whether or not the charging source(s) -- alternators, battery chargers, generators, solar panels, wind generators, or whatever -- are supplying all the current the batteries can accept at a given state of charge.

Not wishing to hi-jack this thread, but to make the point that separate wind and solar regulators do have a significant problem working together which means that the wind genny - which may be the larger supplier of power - may dump its load too early. For those interested see this lengthy thread:

Wind Gen Excess to Where?