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Old 24-12-2010, 03:37   #31
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PFM

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Old 24-12-2010, 05:27   #32
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OK, when you draw a circuit diagram you show the battery with it's positive and negative poles and then you show the current flowing from the positive pole. Current is the flow of electrons which have a negative charge. So... how is it that these electrons are flowing from the positive to the negative? Remember from physics that like charges repel and opposite charges attract.
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Old 24-12-2010, 05:29   #33
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There must also be an invisible electron that the other electrons can't see. (need an icon for humoruos bewilderment here)
These are the buggers that sneak in to fill the gaps created in the in-put power source, when others have been tapped off to produce power supplies in a multiple tap transformer.
Hey--wait a minute--I got it--electrons are schizophrenic.
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Old 24-12-2010, 05:46   #34
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Most people would be best served to stay with the PFM I stated. Been an engineer a long time including in nuclear power (talk about PFM). As a field engineer I find lots of stuff that shouldn't be possible in theory, but of course it is occurring. Just have to go to PFM an accept it.

So if you really know "why" but understand what you can or can't do with an electrical circuit, PFM will serve you well.
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Old 24-12-2010, 09:25   #35
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Originally Posted by stevensuf View Post
What if there was no such thing as energy? well they say it cant be created or destroyed, so how can it exist? hot cant do work without cold, fast cant do work without slow and so on.
the currently accepted 'theory'/explanation, which many scientiest dont like, is that at the beginning, the laws of physics as we know it didnt apply or were just 'different'..

after a millionth of a millionth of a millionth of a second after the beginning, these laws did apply...

the big problem and the thing they are looking for now is the missing link, the key... the thing that ties everything together... and to fill in the missing spot in the equations, they have coined the term dark matter or dark energy... or black holes...

if they can assume that the laws work, then there MUST be something that we dont know.. and we cant see... so DARK and BLACK are the terms of choice... light cant escape, up is down, etc... the laws are backwards...

it is a theory and the holy grail of science... we cant see electrons or protons or nuetrons but yet we know they are there, and we know there are other parts of that same atom ... gluon, strong, weak, etc...particles so small they are smaller then electrons...and there are particles smaller then that...

it is mind boggling and as such not for the light hearted... if you have heard of the 'big bang' theory, and or believe in that theory, then you are part of the populace that believes that the laws of physics 'change'...

if you want to believe that the laws of physics are constant and can not be changed or broken, then you may want to look up the BRANE theory, or the MEMBRANE theory..

good luck and have some fun
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Old 24-12-2010, 09:48   #36
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Originally Posted by Bergovoy View Post
the currently accepted 'theory'/explanation, which many scientiest dont like, is that at the beginning, the laws of physics as we know it didnt apply or were just 'different'..

after a millionth of a millionth of a millionth of a second after the beginning, these laws did apply...

the big problem and the thing they are looking for now is the missing link, the key... the thing that ties everything together... and to fill in the missing spot in the equations, they have coined the term dark matter or dark energy... or black holes...

if they can assume that the laws work, then there MUST be something that we dont know.. and we cant see... so DARK and BLACK are the terms of choice... light cant escape, up is down, etc... the laws are backwards...

it is a theory and the holy grail of science... we cant see electrons or protons or nuetrons but yet we know they are there, and we know there are other parts of that same atom ... gluon, strong, weak, etc...particles so small they are smaller then electrons...and there are particles smaller then that...

it is mind boggling and as such not for the light hearted... if you have heard of the 'big bang' theory, and or believe in that theory, then you are part of the populace that believes that the laws of physics 'change'...

if you want to believe that the laws of physics are constant and can not be changed or broken, then you may want to look up the BRANE theory, or the MEMBRANE theory..

good luck and have some fun
It's A big picture, alright.!!

If I may mix theology with technology, where does the irradiated energy go when an unfortunate cancer victim, or Chernobyl employee, gives up the Ghost.
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Old 24-12-2010, 10:03   #37
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OK, when you draw a circuit diagram you show the battery with it's positive and negative poles and then you show the current flowing from the positive pole. Current is the flow of electrons which have a negative charge. So... how is it that these electrons are flowing from the positive to the negative? Remember from physics that like charges repel and opposite charges attract.
Ben Franklin had a 50 50 chance and guessed wrong. So techy type folks have been talking about stuff coming out of the positive pole since then. Once the physicists found out more how it works, they wrote their books to show electrons coming out of the negative pole. The techys stuck in their ways decided to stick with positives coming out of the positive pole, or since positves don't exist, holes coming out of the positive pole.

Conventional versus electron flow : BASIC CONCEPTS OF ELECTRICITY
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Old 24-12-2010, 10:06   #38
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It's A big picture, alright.!!

If I may mix theology with technology, where does the irradiated energy go when an unfortunate cancer victim, or Chernobyl employee, gives up the Ghost.
actually that is truly recycling... as energy cant be 'destroyed', the energy from the irradiated ghost goes back to HIM..

hehehe, too funny...
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Old 24-12-2010, 10:38   #39
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... so your battery needs to be recharged or you need to buy more electricity from the electric company to replace the 'lost' energy...
There's a third option here. I just plug my charger into the inverter to keep the batteries topped off. Works great!
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Old 24-12-2010, 11:03   #40
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... the big problem and the thing they are looking for now is the missing link, the key... the thing that ties everything together... and to fill in the missing spot in the equations, they have coined the term dark matter or dark energy... or black holes...
... * you may want to look up the BRANE theory, or the MEMBRANE theory.

Which are NOT synonymous.

Roughly 70% of the Universe is Dark Energy, and Dark Matter makes up about 25%. We know how much dark energy there is because we know how it affects the Universe's expansion. Other than that, it is a complete mystery. As for dark matter, we are much more certain what dark matter is no,t than we are what it is.
The rest of the Universe; you & I, everything on Earth, everything ever observed with all of our instruments, all normal matter; adds up to less than 5% of the Universe. Come to think of it, maybe it shouldn't be called "normal" matter at all, since it is such a small fraction of the Universe.

Black holes are objects so dense that not even light can escape their gravity, and since nothing can travel faster than light, nothing can escape from inside a black hole.
When a massive star (at least 10 to 15 times as massive as out Sun) undergoes a supernova explosion, it may leave behind a fairly massive burned out stellar remnant. With no outward forces to oppose gravitational forces, the remnant will collapse in on itself. The star eventually collapses to the point of zero volume and infinite density, creating what is known as a " singularity ". Around the singularity is a region where the force of gravity is so strong that not even light can escape. Thus, no information can reach us from this region. It is therefore called a black hole, and its surface is called the " event horizon ". Since stellar black holes are small (only a few to a few tens of kilometers in size), and light that would allow us to see them cannot escape, a black hole floating alone in space would be hard, if not impossible, to see.

* M-theory, the theory formerly known as Strings
Here ➥ http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/research/...lic/qg_ss.html
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Old 24-12-2010, 11:22   #41
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we dont know what dark energy or dark matter is... the term DARK is an accurate euphanism to describe something we cant see... erego it is dark...

we can not see what we can not know, or rather do not know at this time...

I understand your point.. but matter is energy...and enegy is matter, erego, E=MC2

and actually some, probably many BLACK holes do emit radiation, (which is a form of light)...

And if you believe that energy can not be destroyed, then you must not believe that things can not escape from a black hole... it may take a lot of energy to 'escape' from the gravity of a black hole, but it can escape, and we can or will be able to determine what the black hole is made of...

We can 'see' a black hole easily... just like we can see behind the sun during an eclipse... if things of mass can distort the 'fabric' of space, i.e. warp, then during an eclipse, light is bent AROUND the sun, and we can see things behind it...the same holds true for all objects of mass, and black holes have mass and warp light around it, (until if is 'sucked' into it's event horizon...

the bending of light is similar to the bending of water... and is akin to the commetn earlier about fluid dynamic

please read up on Stephen Hawkings latest book and views on dark energy / matter, and how black holes can not destroy or eat energy...
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Old 24-12-2010, 12:07   #42
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Gee the fun is being drawn out of the thread. Maybe there's a Black Hole around so play attention to the absence of stuff.
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Old 24-12-2010, 16:09   #43
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big sucking sound coming from the center of every galaxy is a black hole...

and it could be infectious, sorry...
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Old 24-12-2010, 16:42   #44
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" OK, when you draw a circuit diagram you show the battery with it's positive and negative poles and then you show the current flowing from the positive pole. Current is the flow of electrons which have a negative charge. So... how is it that these electrons are flowing from the positive to the negative? Remember from physics that like charges repel and opposite charges attract. "
Its all in the definitions.


In metallic solids, electricity flows by means of electrons, from lower to higher electrical potential. In other media, any stream of charged objects may constitute an electric current. To provide a definition of current that is independent of the type of charge carriers flowing, conventional current is defined to flow in the same direction as positive charges. So in metals where the charge carriers (electrons) are negative, conventional current flows in the opposite direction as the electrons. In conductors where the charge carriers are positive, conventional current flows in the same direction as the charge carriers.

Current is metallic conductors is by holes rather then electrons. Like I said PFM
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Old 24-12-2010, 22:38   #45
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"as hole flow"

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PS - I'm ex-Navy so I learned electrical as electronic flow, but the rest of the world learns it as hole flow.
Now I have to clean the coffee off my screen and outta my keyboard!!!!
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