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Old 03-06-2013, 16:02   #76
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Boarding a boat without permission and/or with ill intent is an act of agression that will be countered with same. That does not mean lethal violence, but when the intruder/attacker has an accident as the result of getting scared or from electronic counter measures, then that is an accident as a result of his own act of violence and not because of the victim defending himself.

I am against electrified lifelines but these ideas come up when better options are not considered for one reason or another. In my case, when a 12 year old tries to take something from deck, he will flee with a yelling and cursing madman on his heels, but for more serious assaults, you get introduced to Mr Mossberg and better obey his orders or else.

We are about to set off on our second summer exploring the south of the USA and I can report we feel very safe there. Much safer than in LA or even NYC. And yet, I could grab a gun from the rack in every parked, unlocked truck along the street.
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Old 03-06-2013, 16:11   #77
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

Andrew,

Agricultural electric fencing is not Lethal and would be very common in NZ particularly in the dairy areas. Try it out. If it was lethal it could not be sold.

This thread will eventually turned into a gun thread.
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Old 03-06-2013, 16:14   #78
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
Andrew,

Agricultural electric fencing is not Lethal and would be very common in NZ particularly in the dairy areas. Try it out. If it was lethal it could not be sold.

This thread will eventually turned into a gun thread.
Now now, PLEASE! Don't anyone else bring up those devices. Although this thread does seam to be running in circles.
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Old 03-06-2013, 16:29   #79
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
+1

Haven't heard of many legal cases from Agriculutral electrical fencing in NZ or OZ. Must be a USA thing.

It is not electrocution as several have posted.

I don't recall anyone saying "electrocution." The idea of electrical wire to repel intruders itself is not illegal. Booby-trapping your home or property to repel intruders, however, is illegal in all fifty states. I checked.

It is not illegal to use electrified fence to keep your cattle within your fences.
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Old 03-06-2013, 16:31   #80
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
In all things there's an opposite and equal re-action as you well allude to going tit's up in the water would not be great.

We have a good friend who has a pacemaker (from 30 years old) it would kill her if she touched an innocent looking rail/life line so charged.

I guess if you simply have a sign on it warning all but the bad guy's it would work ok......

A doggie is a cheaper option.

A sign? In how many languages? What if you leave off, say, Vietnamese, and someone who reads only Vietnamese mistakes your boat for his in the dark?
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Old 03-06-2013, 16:31   #81
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

This is a ridiculous thread, since someone trying to save your boat (or you) from catastrophe of some sort might also fall prey to whatever booby trap you've set.
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Old 03-06-2013, 16:34   #82
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Andrew, I have deep respect for you and your country. However, it is an idyllic paradise without the issues that reside in and around mine. No one should be / can be shot just for trespassing (which is what the owner of the farm must have thought), although I know it happens in some parts of the country. The issue here is crime and punishment. NZ seems to have little crime, and that which it has seems to be mostly petty theft. Chicago isn't too far from me; they had 500 murders last year. When I lived near DC, a guy was car jacked & assaulted near where I worked due to his race. I was also the victim of a burglary as a child and lost items I had worked hard for. These type of events form my view on crime and criminals. I like to think I'm as friendly as any Kiwi (my wife gets pissed because I will pickup hitchhikers and stop for disabled cars), but I feel that if you are going to steal, you are violating my rights and I have no concern about what happens to you once you cross that line. Draconian, yes, but it's my view. WIll I leap to deadly force? Not if I have another option, but it is always there at the end of the list of options. I respect other nations for having different views and standards on this, and abide by their laws when visiting, but that won't change the lack of concern I have for the fate of criminals (12 or otherwise), or the compassion that I have for those in distress. Call it a cowboy mentality if you want, but it comes with rural American culture.

Cheers

The issue is that the hot wire is likely to zap people with no intention to commit a crime. You cannot determine in advance what the person's purpose is.
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Old 03-06-2013, 16:40   #83
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Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
This is a ridiculous thread, since someone trying to save your boat (or you) from catastrophe of some sort might also fall prey to whatever booby trap you've set.
Exactly. Imagine you're dying on the floor in your cabin from heart attack but manage to call for help on the radio.. here they come to the rescue, there they go 6' through the air into the water when touching the lifeline. Daft.
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Old 03-06-2013, 16:46   #84
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

Out of curiosity... How many times per year would you say people board your boat in the middle of the night while you're asleep for legitimate reasons (when such a system would presumably be turned on)?
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Old 03-06-2013, 16:49   #85
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Out of curiosity... How many times per year would you say people board your boat in the middle of the night while you're asleep for legitimate reasons (when such a system would presumably be turned on)?
There are plenty of cases of drunken sailors boarding the wrong boat...
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Old 03-06-2013, 16:50   #86
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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There are plenty of cases of drunken sailors boarding the wrong boat...
I asked about your boat.
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Old 03-06-2013, 16:51   #87
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

Raku,

Electrocution has been mentioned in this thread, Lethal also.

If one has never been zapped by an Ag electric fence its difficult for someone to appreciate the difference. Try one out using the back of your hand.

If it works on a fibreglass vessel it would certainly make thieves think twice not kill them. Certainly not something one would set up med moored on a jetty in the Med, but there would be appropriate anchorages where it could be deemed advantagous.

Visit a farm and try one out.

As Jedi said very well,

Boarding a boat without permission and/or with ill intent is an act of agression that will be countered with same. That does not mean lethal violence, but when the intruder/attacker has an accident as the result of getting scared or from electronic counter measures, then that is an accident as a result of his own act of violence and not because of the victim defending himself.

I would certainly not board your vessel or any others at anchor without invitation. It also would not be appropriate to use such a system in a marina or any berthed situation.

Cheers
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Old 03-06-2013, 17:01   #88
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Out of curiosity... How many times per year would you say people board your boat in the middle of the night while you're asleep for legitimate reasons (when such a system would presumably be turned on)?

Doesn't matter. I don't want to be charged with manslaughter if I'm out in a crowded anchorage, as I have been, and someone mistook my boat for theirs. Serious injury or death could follow the resulting fall.
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Old 03-06-2013, 17:06   #89
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Doesn't matter. I don't want to be charged with manslaughter if I'm out in a crowded anchorage, as I have been, and someone mistook my boat for theirs. Serious injury or death could follow the resulting fall.
I wasn't asking if you wanted to be charged with manslaughter, I was asking how often this occurs to the boats in the CF membership because I'm not out there and I don't know. So I'm asking because I'd like to know. Not saying anyone should or shouldn't electrify their lifelines. Get it?
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Old 03-06-2013, 17:10   #90
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I asked about your boat.
I got one attempted illegal boarding (of the yelling madman grade) and 2 or 3 from noobs that didn't know they had to knock and ask first. I am against electrified lifelines and told these people about etiquette. One left angry, the others became friends :thumbs:

Also, I have Dyneema lifelines so could even electrify them if I wanted. I have seen Amels with fully stainless tubing lifelines that had lethal electrified lifeline systems aboard and claimed to use it at anchor. But you must understand that this was in Venezuela with daily incidents, which gives some context.
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