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Old 02-06-2013, 21:59   #61
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

But Sir, its not there to repel boarders, its to remind the crew to keep alert.
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Old 02-06-2013, 22:11   #62
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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But Sir, its not there to repel boarders, its to remind the crew to keep alert.
Razor wire or even common agricultural barbed wired would be a more visible reminder and hence a better incentive, methinks, to keep the crew from putting themselves at risk of MOB ... or, for that matter, anywhere near the side.

I wonder if you can get stainless razor wire? It would certainly focus their minds wonderfully...
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Old 02-06-2013, 22:20   #63
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
Razor wire or even common agricultural barbed wired would be a more visible reminder and hence a better incentive, methinks, to keep the crew from putting themselves at risk of MOB ... or, for that matter, anywhere near the side.

I wonder if you can get stainless razor wire? It would certainly focus their minds wonderfully...
+1

Haven't heard of many legal cases from Agriculutral electrical fencing in NZ or OZ. Must be a USA thing.

It is not electrocution as several have posted.
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Old 02-06-2013, 22:34   #64
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

We had the Port Police walk on board to the cockpit centre to do a safety inspection completely unannounced in SIBENIK some months ago, not sure if i'd be out of some Croatian jail by now if i'd zapped him with an electric fence jolt......

Great thread for a laugh but methinks you should limit your defences to sirens/light's turning on/off/on and that fantastic dog barking alarm (pref Rottweiller)......
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Old 02-06-2013, 23:07   #65
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

A couple of years ago I tried to duck under an electric fence and touched it with the top of my head. I collapsed onto the ground like a sack of barley, out for less than a second. If this somehow happened to someone boarding a boat from a dinghy, one could get hurt.
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Old 02-06-2013, 23:44   #66
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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A couple of years ago I tried to duck under an electric fence and touched it with the top of my head. I collapsed onto the ground like a sack of barley, out for less than a second. If this somehow happened to someone boarding a boat from a dinghy, one could get hurt.
In all things there's an opposite and equal re-action as you well allude to going tit's up in the water would not be great.

We have a good friend who has a pacemaker (from 30 years old) it would kill her if she touched an innocent looking rail/life line so charged.

I guess if you simply have a sign on it warning all but the bad guy's it would work ok......

A doggie is a cheaper option.
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Old 03-06-2013, 00:17   #67
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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How do you know it was his intent to rob you? That's the problem.
The first thing robbers/burglars are taught to say when they're caught in the act is "Is John here?" or "Where's John?" Crime school 101.
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Old 03-06-2013, 00:21   #68
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Ever involuntarily "jump back six feet" while in the middle of attempting to board a large boat from a small dinghy in a seaway, potentially at night? I find it shocking you can't see the potential for lethality here. I've been hit by one on the farm plenty. Seen several major barn fires result from failed fencing too. This idea is not smart on numerous levels.
"Jump back six feet" Is just an expression.... he didn't really leap six feet. Translation for those unfamiliar with the expression.... He let go of the fence really quickly.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:12   #69
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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I used to wonder how it was that the survivor of a plane crash (drummer from Lynnard Skynnard, IIRC) could manage to make it to a nearby farm to seek help for the victims, only to be shot on sight (presumably for being dishevelled, long haired, and wild-eyed)


.
But, in fairness, they did apologize to him, for shooting him, after they figured out he had just survived an airline crash, and did help him get help.
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:09   #70
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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I used to wonder how it was that the survivor of a plane crash (drummer from Lynnard Skynnard, IIRC) could manage to make it to a nearby farm to seek help for the victims, only to be shot on sight (presumably for being dishevelled, long haired, and wild-eyed)

Threads like this (most much worse than this, I freely admit) give me an insight into a sort of psychological feedback loop, where people talk each other into a state of mind which supports acting prejudicially on shallowly based and unreliable inferences to do with intent.

And in the internet era, it seems the race to the bottom has broken free from the few locales where it once festered, and has acquired global reach.

I guess as a result we can look forward to seeing a new 'morality', which we once thought was restricted to Hollywood cowboy movies, spread inexorably over the face of global civil society.
Andrew, I have deep respect for you and your country. However, it is an idyllic paradise without the issues that reside in and around mine. No one should be / can be shot just for trespassing (which is what the owner of the farm must have thought), although I know it happens in some parts of the country. The issue here is crime and punishment. NZ seems to have little crime, and that which it has seems to be mostly petty theft. Chicago isn't too far from me; they had 500 murders last year. When I lived near DC, a guy was car jacked & assaulted near where I worked due to his race. I was also the victim of a burglary as a child and lost items I had worked hard for. These type of events form my view on crime and criminals. I like to think I'm as friendly as any Kiwi (my wife gets pissed because I will pickup hitchhikers and stop for disabled cars), but I feel that if you are going to steal, you are violating my rights and I have no concern about what happens to you once you cross that line. Draconian, yes, but it's my view. WIll I leap to deadly force? Not if I have another option, but it is always there at the end of the list of options. I respect other nations for having different views and standards on this, and abide by their laws when visiting, but that won't change the lack of concern I have for the fate of criminals (12 or otherwise), or the compassion that I have for those in distress. Call it a cowboy mentality if you want, but it comes with rural American culture.

Cheers
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:58   #71
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

This thread got to be a gun thread in disguise that many anti gun members did not recognise. Like any good gun threads it is at is best when closed.
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We're heading for the Philippines and Indonesia where people like to com on board at night and select things on deck that they feel we no longer want nor need.
Why Indonesia, the Philippines when there are so many other countries where the chances of getting rob, rape or murdered are equal or greater?
Normally people sailing to Indonesia carry present for children and not electric fence and an intention to hurt them, really a curious way of trying to get a sailing permit for those countries.
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I would be worried that if you shocked someone they would retaliate by trashing your boat
I do agree and then when the complete neighbourhood arrive to trash you and your boat then suddenly the police really becomes your good friend.

If the OP was genuine then it should familiarize itself with reports from peoples that manage to travel in those regions without having to hurt people. Tom Ships Log 2010 has been good reading and if the OP reckon he cannot put up with the locals it would be wise for him not to go there, I am sure the locals will not miss him.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:42   #72
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
"Jump back six feet" Is just an expression.... he didn't really leap six feet. Translation for those unfamiliar with the expression.... He let go of the fence really quickly.


And if the fence is a lifeline he grabbed while climbing up? Letting go really quickly could easily result in a fall. Perhaps the disconnect here is about boat size, I've got over five feet of freeboard at the lowest part of my hull. Anyone grabbing an unmarked electrified lifeline on my boat is probably going to fall off the boarding ladder and either back into their dinghy or in the drink. I guess if you're foolish enough to have a sugar scoop that lets people just walk on to your boat, this sort of thing becomes appealing.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:28   #73
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

Have you ever touched an electric fence?
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Old 03-06-2013, 15:10   #74
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Have you ever touched an electric fence?
rdw
I have. They are usually set up with very high volts (50,000 to 75,000) but with really low amperage. It's not pleasant, but not dangerous unless it made you fall down or something.

We used to have cattle shock prods that we would always end up hitting each other with, too. Same principal. Same feeling.
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Old 03-06-2013, 15:18   #75
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Andrew, I have deep respect for you and your country. However, it is an idyllic paradise without the issues that reside in and around mine. No one should be / can be shot just for trespassing (which is what the owner of the farm must have thought), although I know it happens in some parts of the country. The issue here is crime and punishment. NZ seems to have little crime, and that which it has seems to be mostly petty theft. Chicago isn't too far from me; they had 500 murders last year. When I lived near DC, a guy was car jacked & assaulted near where I worked due to his race. I was also the victim of a burglary as a child and lost items I had worked hard for. These type of events form my view on crime and criminals. I like to think I'm as friendly as any Kiwi (my wife gets pissed because I will pickup hitchhikers and stop for disabled cars), but I feel that if you are going to steal, you are violating my rights and I have no concern about what happens to you once you cross that line. Draconian, yes, but it's my view. WIll I leap to deadly force? Not if I have another option, but it is always there at the end of the list of options. I respect other nations for having different views and standards on this, and abide by their laws when visiting, but that won't change the lack of concern I have for the fate of criminals (12 or otherwise), or the compassion that I have for those in distress. Call it a cowboy mentality if you want, but it comes with rural American culture.

Cheers
Thanks Bluemoose, for a reasoned and nuanced piece of thinking.

Nevertheless there's a major difference between the philosophy you hold, and the one which I'm concerned is being exported to the rest of the world via movies and the internet.

You are clearly in favour of asking questions first and escalating the response to a violent one only once intent to steal is solidly established *

Whereas what I am primarily concerned about, and would categorise as 'cowboy behaviour', is shooting first and asking questions afterwards.

In terms of this thread, the notion that someone who has not knocked on the hull and waited to be invited aboard can be greeted with disabling or lethal force seems pretty squarely in the second category.

But what I'm really concerned about, and what moved me to post on this emotive issue: it seems to me that those who share ideas in public on the most efficient ways of doing that are assisting with the export of what you call 'rural American culture' to places where (to my way of thinking) it can only make things worse.

I could try to make the argument that the present situation in the US (which you eloquently describe as murderous) has already been made worse in that same way.
I could try to argue that murderous sub-culture is partly a long term society-wide consequence, evolving from a pioneer/rurally founded survival imperative, based on people asserting their rights as individuals as a first resort and using the rule of law as a last resort. But I don't know if that has merit, so I won't.
* (I feel a trifle queasy about the rigour with which bad intent is established, BTW, but I freely concede it's a difficult issue.
It becomes rather more difficult when you reposition yourself and your loved ones and your property abroad, where 'personal space' is not a universally cherished concept)
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