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Old 02-06-2013, 18:36   #46
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by bluemoose View Post
Who came up with these dumb laws? Someone tries to rob you and dies in the process. I don't see the problem here. Someone coming to your aid due to a fire or something - oh yes, you would need warning signs... probably not enough to make it legal though. :-(

How do you know it was his intent to rob you? That's the problem.
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Old 02-06-2013, 18:42   #47
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
How do you know it was his intent to rob you? That's the problem.
You request permission to come aboard. I wouldn't step onto another's boat w/o asking. If really concerned, knock on the side.
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Old 02-06-2013, 18:51   #48
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Electric livestock fencing does not electrocute the person who touches it. It just creates an unpleasant and immediate reflex action to let go or back off. No one would get killed by touching the lifelines or livestock fence if the installation is done properly.

Near our place in Massachusetts is a farm that raises bison; currently the herd numbers 15. People stop all the time to watch the bison graze, it's quite the site. A friend of mine was so taken, that he walked up to the fence and rested both arms on it to look over.... he'll never do that again! He jumped back 6 feet, but he wasn't burned or harmed in any way... just taught a lesson he'll never forget, and a fun story to tell others. I'm sure many other folks have done the same thing as my friend, and so far, I haven't hear of any lawsuits being filed.

Livestock fencing works more like a deterrent than a booby trap. In the case of this farm, it works to keep the bison within the fencing and also to keep dumb-ass people away from and out of the fencing.

One of the previous stories on this thread mentioned a store keeper who electrocuted an intruder; electric livestock fencing is not the same thing. The store keeper used 120v or 220 volts to zap his burglar much like a bug zapper.


Ever involuntarily "jump back six feet" while in the middle of attempting to board a large boat from a small dinghy in a seaway, potentially at night? I find it shocking you can't see the potential for lethality here. I've been hit by one on the farm plenty. Seen several major barn fires result from failed fencing too. This idea is not smart on numerous levels.
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Old 02-06-2013, 19:10   #49
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Heck with the mess of electrified wires just carry what I do. I have a little camera outside on the spreader. If I see anyone who isn't supposed to be there I have a small hole I stick the nozzle out and a couple of blasts and they quickly persuaded to leave.

I've been sprayed with it in the academy and have no issues with spraying someone. It's not lethal and leaves no lasting effects.
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Old 02-06-2013, 19:23   #50
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Heck with the mess of electrified wires just carry what I do. I have a little camera outside on the spreader. If I see anyone who isn't supposed to be there I have a small hole I stick the nozzle out and a couple of blasts and they quickly persuaded to leave.

I've been sprayed with it in the academy and have no issues with spraying someone. It's not lethal and leaves no lasting effects.

http://www.coldsteel.com/Inferno-Pepper-Spray.aspx


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Old 02-06-2013, 19:27   #51
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

I suppose you could say the same thing of having a dog onboard. Someone boards the boat in the middle of the night and the dog goes and barks startlingly; the person jumps backwards and falls over killing themselves. You, as the dog owner, should have seen this coming and prepared for it right?

I mean, of all the stuff people are trying to do to defend their home (boat) an electric fence seems pretty mundane. I've been zapped by them and yes they smart but they aren't anything close to a jolt of 110v (don't ask how I know) and they're certainly not lethal.

A camera seems like a good idea except that the only time you're probably really worried about thieves is when you're snoozing and not watching the camera.

I mean pretty much every suggestion seems unhappy.

Guns - a whole other debate
electric fence - liability
weapons - only good when you're awake and even then people think they're awful
locking stuff up - doesn't really work if someone has a bolt cutter
making your boat look shabby - who wants to look like a bum?
picking only "good" spots - still danger even in the best spots
dog onboard - see above, it could get someone killed
monitoring - doesn't work while asleep

I mean, the whole thing is crazy making. As far as I can tell, the cruiser hive mind basically says, "Just let them come and if you get hit, oh well."

Crime just sucks.
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Old 02-06-2013, 19:32   #52
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

Are you guys visiting war zones? Why would you sail thousands of miles to face low-lifers? What is wrong with this picture? A friend of mine went to an Army/Navy surplus store to buy a can of pepper spray; to protect herself from aggressive dogs while jogging. She bought a couple of cans, and then she asked the clerk if he has a couple more to sell. The clerk replied: "With so many cans of pepper spray you want to buy, have you thought about moving out of your neighborhood?" Mauritz
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Old 02-06-2013, 20:39   #53
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by Target9000 View Post
I suppose you could say the same thing of having a dog onboard. Someone boards the boat in the middle of the night and the dog goes and barks startlingly; the person jumps backwards and falls over killing themselves. You, as the dog owner, should have seen this coming and prepared for it right?

I mean, of all the stuff people are trying to do to defend their home (boat) an electric fence seems pretty mundane. I've been zapped by them and yes they smart but they aren't anything close to a jolt of 110v (don't ask how I know) and they're certainly not lethal.

A camera seems like a good idea except that the only time you're probably really worried about thieves is when you're snoozing and not watching the camera.

I mean pretty much every suggestion seems unhappy.

Guns - a whole other debate
electric fence - liability
weapons - only good when you're awake and even then people think they're awful
locking stuff up - doesn't really work if someone has a bolt cutter
making your boat look shabby - who wants to look like a bum?
picking only "good" spots - still danger even in the best spots
dog onboard - see above, it could get someone killed
monitoring - doesn't work while asleep

I mean, the whole thing is crazy making. As far as I can tell, the cruiser hive mind basically says, "Just let them come and if you get hit, oh well."

Crime just sucks.


Being prosecuted successfully for your barking dog "startling" somebody to death seems highly unlikely. Especially since most dogs make themselves known before a boarder is alongside. Same could not be said of the electric lifelines (deathlines?).
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Old 02-06-2013, 20:46   #54
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Being prosecuted successfully for your barking dog "startling" somebody to death seems highly unlikely. Especially since most dogs make themselves known before a boarder is alongside. Same could not be said of the electric lifelines (deathlines?).

That's right. If the dog is on deck, you will know it's there. If it's in the cabin, they had to break in to be confronted by an angry dog. They may need stitches, but they'll only be going overboard if they choose that as an escape route.

Not so with an electric fence.

it may be fair or unfair, but the law is what the law is.
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Old 02-06-2013, 20:53   #55
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
from what i have heard from other cruisers has been the last entry into a boat in so pac was pago pago year before last.
Care to read an update on that? Guess I should have written about this earlier....

Attack happened in Pago Pago, Sept, 2011. After dark, two guys (one about age 19, t'other about 28 and both later determined by breathalizer test to be technically drunk) swam out to the sailboat Altaira, using a driftwood log as support.

They boarded and assaulted an elderly, single hander man while he slept. Beat him with a camera tri-pod, knocking teeth loose and lacerating his face. Tried to strangle him with a wire cord. He resisted.

Due to an observant neighbor the cops were notified while the attack was in progress. The two guys were caught as they tried to swim ashore - probably alerted by approaching harbour police boats using sirens and flashing light cop-bars.

In March, 2013, the cruising crowd (myself included) from several boats attended court for the sentencing of the two low-lifes. The victim deserved our moral support. And the court needed to know it was being observed by the cruising community.

Result as handed down by the American Samoa Territory High Court: Each man received a sentence of 27 years imprisonment, without possibility of parole consideration until having served 1/3 of the 27 years.

There it is. Concerned parties might want to copy this over to the appropriate forum. {I wouldn't know where....}

James
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Old 02-06-2013, 21:21   #56
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
If you are standing on fiberglass, are you grounded? will the electric fence shock you?
Not sure it will. I've installed and maintain many many miles of it, with several of my systems powered by a 2 Joule charger running off a 12V Grp 27 battery with a small solar panel attached. It kicks out 5-7 Kv on most of my systems, and hurts to run into.

Most systems use the earth to complete the circuit, so we install lots of ground rods in our conductive soils. Some of my systems have as much as (4) 8' ground rods - 32 total feet - to deliver a good shock and keep cattle contained. In very dry non-conductive soils, they sometimes do a "fence return" system where one wire is hot, the other ground, and one must touch both at the same time.

I would not be able to stand the loud pop that comes from fence chargers. I don't think it is a practical solution but in theory, it could work by charging alternate lifelines, but the wires would have to be insulated from each other or the system would ground out and not deliver a shock.
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Old 02-06-2013, 21:32   #57
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

Most of you haven't touched an electric fence and are letting your imaginations run wild. We've got them all over our country and no farmer has been sued to my knowledge.

Its a pulse of a few milliamps. Can't harm you, just a repellant. As for the thief falling, if its designed right they will still be in their boat and just pull their hand back rather quickly.
Only problem is you would probably need a specialist to set it up for your individual boat.
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Old 02-06-2013, 21:34   #58
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

I used to wonder how it was that the survivor of a plane crash (drummer from Lynnard Skynnard, IIRC) could manage to make it to a nearby farm to seek help for the victims, only to be shot on sight (presumably for being dishevelled, long haired, and wild-eyed)

Threads like this (most much worse than this, I freely admit) give me an insight into a sort of psychological feedback loop, where people talk each other into a state of mind which supports acting prejudicially on shallowly based and unreliable inferences to do with intent.

And in the internet era, it seems the race to the bottom has broken free from the few locales where it once festered, and has acquired global reach.

I guess as a result we can look forward to seeing a new 'morality', which we once thought was restricted to Hollywood cowboy movies, spread inexorably over the face of global civil society.
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Old 02-06-2013, 21:48   #59
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
I used to wonder how it was that the survivor of a plane crash (drummer from Lynnard Skynnard, IIRC) could manage to make it to a nearby farm to seek help for the victims, only to be shot on sight (presumably for being dishevelled, long haired, and wild-eyed)

Threads like this (most much worse than this, I freely admit) give me an insight into a sort of psychological feedback loop, where people talk each other into a state of mind which supports acting prejudicially on shallowly based and unreliable inferences to do with intent.

And in the internet era, it seems the race to the bottom has broken free from the few locales where it once festered, and has acquired global reach.

I guess as a result we can look forward to seeing a new 'morality', which we once thought was restricted to Hollywood cowboy movies, spread inexorably over the face of global civil society.


Or uncivil society, as the case may be.
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Old 02-06-2013, 21:53   #60
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

Poor thinking, here. You were exposed to the risk of a thief taking your outboard. By electrically shocking said thief, you are now exposing yourself to the risk of a lawsuit which may cost you a great deal more than an outboard. The thief knows this, most likely. It's not about whether it works or not, it's about basic risk assessment. I'm pretty confident you could be successfully sued and /or criminally prosecuted in many countries for this.
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