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Old 01-06-2013, 12:19   #31
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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post

Many cows have been test subjects....
and they sure as hell never had an earthing spike from their bum into the ground.

How did the cows get on a fiberglass deck?

Hoof to dirt is an effective connection...as is foot to dirt...from a fromer accidental test subject. But hoof/foot to glass???
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Old 01-06-2013, 20:04   #32
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

I would be worried that if you shocked someone they would retaliate by trashing your boat, cutting the mooring etc. Also, it would be really easy to return with a bit of wire, ground the electrified bit and have unimpeded access.
Years ago, I set up an electric fence wire about 8 inches off the ground to deter a young collie dog from digging up our vege garden at night. Set it at dusk the first night and was sitting having a drink with my wife when she said, "Hear that, I think a dog has been run over".
Only problem, it was coming from our back yard.
Turned out he had stepped over the wire with his front legs OK and the only bit that touched the wire was his little dickie ! Poor thing weed in panic and laid down on the wire.
If dogs can get PTSD he had it! For months after, he would come up the yard, and when level with the garden move as far away as possible and slink past.
I felt really bad, as the result was unintended, but at least he kept off the garden.

Regards,

Richard.
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Old 01-06-2013, 20:44   #33
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by bluemoose View Post
Who came up with these dumb laws? Someone tries to rob you and dies in the process. I don't see the problem here.
In Mexico there was a dad who paddled out in a panga to a yacht and had his 12 year old son jump up onto the yacht and try to release the dinghy from its davits.

If you think that 12 year old deserves to die, well, I won't say anything else since I have nothing nice to say.
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Old 01-06-2013, 21:10   #34
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
In Mexico there was a dad who paddled out in a panga to a yacht and had his 12 year old son jump up onto the yacht and try to release the dinghy from its davits.

If you think that 12 year old deserves to die, well, I won't say anything else since I have nothing nice to say.

I take it you don't support the death penalty for minors. To bad they don't think that way up here, but if you shocked the little bastard maybe he would think twice before trying to steal my dinghy.
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Old 01-06-2013, 21:39   #35
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

This thread appears to be going the way of the last one on Electric fencing. death and destruction. If you have not used them it is clearly hard for some to grasp. Need some recent users to comment. Its 30 years since I used but is very common with dairy operations and for temporary fencing. Was certainly not life threatening from my experience.

We are talking commercially available common 12V electric fencing used in many places for livestock containment.

Its not the 220V stuff that has been used in parts of South America alongside razor wire.

I don't know its it works on a fibreglass boat but it it does could be worthwhile.
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Old 01-06-2013, 21:40   #36
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
If you will be on board, better to get some motion detectors and hook up an alarm. As long as they are pointing to your deck, not over the side, they won't false alarm. Inexpensive, and legal all over the world.
Yep, and what I'd suggest is you have multiple sensors, so just motion is not enough. Infrared also, maybe some pressure sensitive mats.
Then ramp up the warnings, motion==lights, infrared = bright flashing lights, mat pressure, high decibel siren, door latch, really loud siren.
And a remote to disable all of it.

Electric fence can be dangerous. loud piercing noise is not dangerous, but is intolerable.
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Old 01-06-2013, 21:40   #37
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by boden36 View Post
I would be worried that if you shocked someone they would retaliate by trashing your boat, cutting the mooring etc. Also, it would be really easy to return with a bit of wire, ground the electrified bit and have unimpeded access.
Years ago, I set up an electric fence wire about 8 inches off the ground to deter a young collie dog from digging up our vege garden at night. Set it at dusk the first night and was sitting having a drink with my wife when she said, "Hear that, I think a dog has been run over".
Only problem, it was coming from our back yard.
Turned out he had stepped over the wire with his front legs OK and the only bit that touched the wire was his little dickie ! Poor thing weed in panic and laid down on the wire.
If dogs can get PTSD he had it! For months after, he would come up the yard, and when level with the garden move as far away as possible and slink past.
I felt really bad, as the result was unintended, but at least he kept off the garden.

Regards,

Richard.
More effective than you expected.
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Old 01-06-2013, 23:11   #38
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by Guy View Post
I take it you don't support the death penalty for minors. To bad they don't think that way up here, but if you shocked the little bastard maybe he would think twice before trying to steal my dinghy.
His father forced him to do it, the kid was twelve. Twelve year olds don't think twice or once before they do anything. I don't want my dinghy stolen any more than the next guy but gleefully electrocuting someone as they drop into the water stunned and potentially drown to step a theft is insane and hopefully illegal.

To the thread starter and anyone else considering this, consider the legal ramifications of your actions since the ethical ones don't seem to bother you much.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:17   #39
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

Electric livestock fencing does not electrocute the person who touches it. It just creates an unpleasant and immediate reflex action to let go or back off. No one would get killed by touching the lifelines or livestock fence if the installation is done properly.

Near our place in Massachusetts is a farm that raises bison; currently the herd numbers 15. People stop all the time to watch the bison graze, it's quite the site. A friend of mine was so taken, that he walked up to the fence and rested both arms on it to look over.... he'll never do that again! He jumped back 6 feet, but he wasn't burned or harmed in any way... just taught a lesson he'll never forget, and a fun story to tell others. I'm sure many other folks have done the same thing as my friend, and so far, I haven't hear of any lawsuits being filed.

Livestock fencing works more like a deterrent than a booby trap. In the case of this farm, it works to keep the bison within the fencing and also to keep dumb-ass people away from and out of the fencing.

One of the previous stories on this thread mentioned a store keeper who electrocuted an intruder; electric livestock fencing is not the same thing. The store keeper used 120v or 220 volts to zap his burglar much like a bug zapper.
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Old 02-06-2013, 16:43   #40
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Electric livestock fencing does not electrocute the person who touches it. It just creates an unpleasant and immediate reflex action to let go or back off. No one would get killed by touching the lifelines or livestock fence if the installation is done properly.

Near our place in Massachusetts is a farm that raises bison; currently the herd numbers 15. People stop all the time to watch the bison graze, it's quite the site. A friend of mine was so taken, that he walked up to the fence and rested both arms on it to look over.... he'll never do that again! He jumped back 6 feet, but he wasn't burned or harmed in any way... just taught a lesson he'll never forget, and a fun story to tell others. I'm sure many other folks have done the same thing as my friend, and so far, I haven't hear of any lawsuits being filed.

Livestock fencing works more like a deterrent than a booby trap. In the case of this farm, it works to keep the bison within the fencing and also to keep dumb-ass people away from and out of the fencing.

One of the previous stories on this thread mentioned a store keeper who electrocuted an intruder; electric livestock fencing is not the same thing. The store keeper used 120v or 220 volts to zap his burglar much like a bug zapper.
+ 10

As you say electric fencing does not electrocute, does not kill.

If it did the systems could not be sold. Designed to deter not to kill.

Kenomac, many people from cities and non rural areas who have not see /used electric fencing systems find it hard to picture. Many are visual in their learning processes.
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Old 02-06-2013, 16:52   #41
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

Why would you sail to a place where there's a good chance that your boat will be broken-into? I do not see any pleasure in worrying about my boat, while having dinner ashore. I'd avoid these places like a plague, no matter how picturesque they are. There are thousands of islands and atolls to be visited, without worrying about your property. It's time to change course! Mauritz
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Old 02-06-2013, 17:30   #42
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Why would you sail to a place where there's a good chance that your boat will be broken-into? ...

. There are thousands of islands and atolls to be visited, without worrying about your property. It's time to change course! Mauritz
Its everywhere these days . And deserted atols are fine for a while, or for some people, but others cruising is about tourism, culture, history and, well, PEOPLE!
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Old 02-06-2013, 18:02   #43
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

ALL of my vacation travel is destined to remote locations for the sole purpose of SCUBA diving. I usually never see more than a dozen people wherever I travel. I am more interested in looking at reefs and fishes, than looking at cultures. Mauritz
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Old 02-06-2013, 18:33   #44
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
His father forced him to do it, the kid was twelve. Twelve year olds don't think twice or once before they do anything. I don't want my dinghy stolen any more than the next guy but gleefully electrocuting someone as they drop into the water stunned and potentially drown to step a theft is insane and hopefully illegal.

To the thread starter and anyone else considering this, consider the legal ramifications of your actions since the ethical ones don't seem to bother you much.
Please read the above responses. This will not kill the little bastard, but he will jump off my boat in a hurry. No, I am not bothered by the ethical considerations of shocking the kid. Hell, if he breaks into the cabin while I'm inside, I'm not even bothered by the ethical dilemma that you would be in while defending my property or potentially my life. He knows right from wrong, especially by 12. Would I rather he be scared away and not injured or killed? certainly!
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Old 02-06-2013, 18:35   #45
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Re: electrified lifelines(on purpose)

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It is true, setting a man trap is illegal most places. I am also not a fan of such things, as they often get you, your neighbor trying to save your boat, etc..

There was a case many years ago in the Little River section of Miami. A shopkeeper tired of thieves knocking the windows out every night and stealing him blind, installed bars on the windows and doors. The thieves responded by cutting holes in the roof to enter. This went on night after night, and the police did what they usually do, write reports after every break in.

Tired of fixing his roof every day, he electrified a grid under the roof. His trap caught it's prey on the very first night, and killed a young man. The shop owner was charged with murder.

A Jury of his peers heard his case and refused to convict him. Not a couple of sympathetic Jurors who caused a hung Jury, but an Acquittal of all charges. A foreign yachtsman could hardly count on such sympathy, however.

All of that being said, if a thief gets shocked and hits his head and drowns due to your electrified lifelines, there are questions like, how far can I throw my portable electric fence box? Take the stickers identifying it as an electric fence box off first though, I'm hoping the water will be pretty clear.


'

The big question would be how you could prove the person intended to take anything or harm you. If someone kicks the cockpit doors in you can be pretty sure of some sort of aggressive intent, but not just from stepping on the boat. The person might claim he hadn't seen you in a couple of days and was concerned about you, thought your boat was riding low and might have a leak, etc.
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