Electrical Fuel from Sand?

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Simonsays

that would be the first perpetuum mobile that works.. .and able to drive a boat!
better get it patentet asap ;P

ever heared of the first law of thermodynamics?

The laws of thermodynamics are for wimps. On the other hand think i will go sit in my lounge chair and contemplate the second law.

[captlloyd]

Without going into a discussion about the Media, they would jump on something like this which would revolutionalize our power needs. No, I see claims like these and say, how come this isn't international news. Probably ''snake-oil''.

[fred4936]

I re-powered my boat with electric, and it works very well. I am all for moving away from fossil fuels, so I would like to see this technology come of age. But the future will be many fuels, not just sand, or solar, or wind, or anything else, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Fred Liesegang
Tartan 27-2

[Ironman162]

I'm all for the technology too.
My boat has 3 X 250 litre fuel tanks with premium petrol - Not a bad second to a bomb either!
If the fuel don't go stale it max out my credit card at the pump!
The use of solar power to produce Brown gas from sea water has potential.
It produces Hydrogen and Oxygen out of salt water by circulating current through it. The gas then used as it is being produced. No storage required.
The idea is to have a dual fuel system: Start the engine on petrol and when on temp then change over to the gas producer. The Dual fuel approach is also a good backup for dull days.
The circulating current should be from solar or eind wind and not the engine itself as it will defeat the purpose. It cant feed itself in other words. Altermatively a seperate generator can do it in an emergency.
Any ideas welcome the more we think laterally the sooner a bright invention will happen!

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[navy davy]

The fuel cell that is kinda like this that uses plates made from sand and makes electricity, is made by "Bloom Energy" A fuel cell like this the size of a 4slice toaster will power a normal size home 24/7 price, about $250,000.00 "Bloom Energy" has been putting these in several commercial buildings for companies like walmart yahoo google and many more companies that use large amounts of power. they are stackable and basically plug and play.

[ArtM]

Understand that Hydrogen was incorrectly touted as an "energy source" for many years by the media. That has largely stopped now, thankfully.

Hydrogen is a "fuel", not a "source" of energy. It can be used as a means of storing energy (H2O splitting), but is difficult to store and transport, so not so great.

The primary source of "free hydrogen" today is petroleum - the same place we ALREADY get gasoline, diesel, and LPG.

Solar power is rapidly advancing, and has now become economically viable in Hawaii as a PRIMARY energy source. Soon, it will be possible to power a vehicle on solar power alone. When that happens, hydrogen cells MIGHT be part of the equation, but I suspect that battery technology will be much simpler, safer, and less expensive.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Unfortunately the 'box of sand' doesn't power anything...

THIS! Time eleventy-billion!

Sand is not a fuel, and never will be a fuel. The headline on that article is so completely wrong and misleading that there can only be two possibilities: 1) the author is a complete moron, 2) it is a deliberate lie.

[Ironman162]

Thanks for an very intetesting reply! Isn't it great that we have a discussion forum!

Did anyone notice the Hydrogen powered Hyundai released in Australia?

A dry cell for around $100 will produce 2 lites per minute using around 10 amp.

Surely its worth looking into?
Here are a few ideas:
1)We don't need go store any gas just utilise it as it is being produced.
2) The 10 amp circulating current comes from the solar panels on the boat and not the engine alternator
3)can the Hydrogen then be used to feed a fuel cell if it is not a fuel in itself?
4) I am lead to believe it can enhance the combustion of fuel within an engine increasing the engine's efficiency as a minimum.

As always these are just ideas based on some basic research for discussion.
Im not trying to hijack the forum Im trying to contribute to the fuel cell approach. Hoping it may become affordable.



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[ArtM]

I consider fuel cells to be like hybrid car engines - a nice improvement on an old theme, but not revolutionary by itself.

Would a fuel cell be more efficient or less polluting than a gasoline engine? Safer, lighter, or more reliable? Maybe - early results are not that encouraging, but possible!

Hydrogen is a fuel, and can be created by electricity. The electricity, currently is created by fossil fuels, so converting electricity into hydrogen to power a boat or a car that can just as easily run on the fossil fuel is not an efficient process.

If a boat can operate on solar cells (we are on the edge of this technology now), and battery technology can be used to "level the load", then why fool around with dangerous electrolysis or storage of explosive fuels?

Hydrogen technology is worth ongoing research, and could someday lead to a better mousetrap, but the idea that it is a "clean, new source of energy" is, unfortunately, false hyperbole. Hydrogen comes from the same OLD sources of energy we already have - it's just a different way of storing and converting it.

[wristwister]

I just plug my charger into my inverter to keep my batteries topped up. Works great!

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by wristwister

I just plug my charger into my inverter to keep my batteries topped up. Works great!

And doubles as a useful boat heater in a pinch!

[wristwister]

Originally Posted by ArtM

And doubles as a useful boat heater in a pinch!

... but when I turn on that electric fan on the stern rail to keep the sails filled it does drain down the battery a bit.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Ironman162

T
A dry cell for around $100 will produce 2 lites per minute using around 10 amp.

Surely its worth looking into?
Here are a few ideas:
1)We don't need go store any gas just utilise it as it is being produced.
2) The 10 amp circulating current comes from the solar panels on the boat and not the engine alternator
...

If 10 Amps can produce 2 litres per minute, then 2 litres can't generate more than 0.167Ah at the same voltage. Otherwise we are back to perpetual motion.

So you would be better off just using the 10 Amps directly from the solar panels, fewer steps and therefore fewer inefficiencies.

TANSTAAFL

[FlyingCloud1937]

Increase efficiency by 100%, use yellow water as your feed stock, to make brown gas.

Urin has 2 parts hydrogen, as compared to H20 with one part.

do the math.

[sailnow2011]

Originally Posted by MarkSF

BTW, that was the real reason for the Hindenberg disaster - leaks which allowed oxygen to build up in the hydrogen.

LOL, where did you read that?
hydrogen and oxygen gasses make water, anyway it was the fabric that covered the craft that caused the fire.