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Old 24-11-2015, 02:12   #46
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Maybe he's German.
and us germans think that fekal humor is a british thing.
i mean.. we can be gross..
but not that gross..

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
So you're saying that one day we'll have a head that fills the fuel tanks?
basicly, yes.
maybe we can join this thread with the B.o.B. thread now?
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Old 24-11-2015, 06:37   #47
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
Urine's major constituent is urea, which incorporates four hydrogen atoms per molecule - importantly, less tightly bonded than the hydrogen atoms in water molecules.

Read more at: Producing hydrogen from urine
Nope:
About 91-96% of urine consists of water.

Urea is the largest constituent of the solids, constituting more than 50% of the total.


So it's only 2-4.5% of urine.

Also:

Average urine production in adult humans is around 1.4 L of urine per person per day.
and
The average person excretes about 30 grams of urea a day, mostly through urine, but a small amount is also secreted in perspiration.

So that's again about 2%.

Hardly the major constituent.

And even at that concentration:
Urea is CO(NH2)2 Given the atomic weight of those elements,
Approx:
C = 12
O = 16
N= 14
H = 1
So Hydrogen is 2 /(12 + 16 + 14 + 1 + 14 + 1) = 2/58 = 1/29th of the total.

Or about 1 gram of hydrogen per person per day. It will take a heck of a big crew to generate a useful amount of hydrogen to use as fuel.
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Old 24-11-2015, 06:41   #48
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
Electrolysis of urea and urine for solar hydrogen

Abstract

Hybrid photovoltaic (PV) arrays-electrochemical systems have been envisaged as an alternative technology that co-manages an energy–water nexus, yet improving the technical viability and applicability of the hybrids remains a challenge. With this in mind, we studied the hybrid electrochemical system for urea and urine treatment and simultaneous H2 production using BiOx–TiO2 anode and stainless steel cathode couples with different electrolytes (NaCl vs. LiClO4 vs. Na2SO4). In the presence of NaCl, urea electrolysis was found to enhance the cathodic H2 production by a maximum of ca. 20% at low urea concentrations, yet reduce the H2 production at high urea concentrations as compared to water electrolysis. Varying degrees of the synergistic H2 production were attributed to competitive reactions between active chlorine species and urea/urea intermediates for protons and electrons. The synergistic effect by the urea electrolysis disappeared when LiClO4 and Na2SO4 were used as electrolytes indicating the crucial role of chlorine species in the hybrid reactions. In addition, the electrolysis of actual urine was found to successfully operate along with simultaneous generation of H2 even in the absence of externally added electrolytes. This electrolyteless-hybrid electrolysis resulted from the large amounts of chloride and other ionic species originally included in the actual urine sample. A detailed reaction mechanism of urea electrolysis and its application potential in terms of solar hydrogen were discussed.

4
Regardless of how much hydrogen can be produced from a given amount of urine, It will still take much more energy to extract it that it can produce in a fuel cell. If you are a self contained system on a boat, you are still far better off using the electricity produced by solar directly rather than splitting urea and using the resultant hydrogen to generate energy.
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Old 24-11-2015, 06:44   #49
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Originally Posted by Simonsays View Post
and us germans think that fekal humor is a british thing.
i mean.. we can be gross..
but not that gross..
Nothing gross intended. I believe the german word for urine is urin.

My apologies if I have offended.
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Old 24-11-2015, 06:54   #50
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
In the long run I expect renewable electricity to be used to generate hydrogen and to separate carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and then to synthesize hydrocarbon fuels from those components.
All of the previously listed problems are alleviated going this route. Cost goes way up though which puts a much higher premium on engine efficiency and reducing speed of travel.
The advantage of solar energy to synfuel is that you can set up plants in sunny areas, like the Australian interior, and then just ship the fuel out.
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Old 24-11-2015, 08:42   #51
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Nothing gross intended. I believe the german word for urine is urin.

My apologies if I have offended.
Well stu I guess he was talking about operation golden flow and not Urin the medication that controls operation golden flow. What a difference a letter makes. Also the old spelling Urin for urine is middle English and based on pre christian latin
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Old 24-11-2015, 09:16   #52
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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My apologies if I have offended.
nah, nothing to take serious here, i was just playing with words:
gross is a german word as well and means great.
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Old 24-11-2015, 16:37   #53
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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nah, nothing to take serious here, i was just playing with words:
gross is a german word as well and means great.
Missed that one.
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Old 24-11-2015, 19:11   #54
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
The advantage of solar energy to synfuel is that you can set up plants in sunny areas, like the Australian interior, and then just ship the fuel out.
How about the sunny areas like around those troublesome CSG wells, and then use the existing gas pipelines to send the fuel down to the coast for use in cars and trucks. Australia has enough space to turn this into self-sufficiency in respect of transport fuels.
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Old 25-11-2015, 05:06   #55
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

These alternative energy threads, especially the ones that talk about hydrogen, are 99.99999% bad science and 10% unicorn urine. Its like the small minded people who think putting a hydrogen generator in the car makes fuel economy go up.
Sorry to say they are suckers of people with nothing more then a marketing degree.
I have a degree from MIT in physical chemistry.
Your not going to make your own hydrogen efficiently enough to use for anything, let alone making it on a boat. So stick to your diesel, and stop trying to think at anchor.
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Old 25-11-2015, 05:27   #56
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

Reminds me of a fantasy that was going around 40 years ago...claimed that the petroleum companies were preventing development of a revolutionary carburetor that could deliver 100 mpg.

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Old 25-11-2015, 10:35   #57
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

Entertains me that all these luddites keep saying it'll never happen and to "stop thinking" when I posted a number of links to the actual product, which is on the market now, quite a ways back.
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Old 25-11-2015, 10:42   #58
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Entertains me that all these luddites keep saying it'll never happen and to "stop thinking" when I posted a number of links to the actual product, which is on the market now, quite a ways back.
you need to install one on your Nauticat to convince them ,)
i provided a link to the submarine class using fuel cells for a more than 12 years now on page 1.
did not help.
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Old 25-11-2015, 10:44   #59
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Entertains me that all these luddites keep saying it'll never happen and to "stop thinking" when I posted a number of links to the actual product, which is on the market now, quite a ways back.
Don't think the EFoy turns either sand or piss into useful electricity

It takes a highly purified alcohol fuel and turns it into electricity. Us "Luddites" aren't dismissing the existence of fuel cells, only fuel cells that generate power magically from sand or urine, or generate more power than they consume (the perpetual motion proposals that would use the electricity from the fuel cell to split water/urine to make H2 and O2, and then re-combine it in the cell and somehow come out ahead).
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Old 25-11-2015, 16:54   #60
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
I already patented it. Anyone who uses a working perpetual motion machine owes me royalties.
Years ago I duct taped a starter motor to an alternator, wired them together, and put a fan belt between the two. I gave it a spin, and she's still spinning to this day.

Where do I send the royalty check?
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