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Old 23-11-2015, 19:52   #31
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
Increase efficiency by 100%, use yellow water as your feed stock, to make brown gas.

Urin has 2 parts hydrogen, as compared to H20 with one part.

do the math.
....... seriously? maybe this will help you more....

H2 O AKA HoH. Two hydrogen molecules one oxygen.
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Old 23-11-2015, 20:19   #32
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
Increase efficiency by 100%, use yellow water as your feed stock, to make brown gas.

Urin has 2 parts hydrogen, as compared to H20 with one part.

do the math.
???? H2 ????

And besides which:

"Urine is an aqueous solution of greater than 95% water, with the remaining constituents, in order of decreasing concentration urea 9.3 g/L, chloride 1.87 g/L, sodium 1.17 g/L, potassium 0.750 g/L, creatinine 0.670 g/L and other dissolved ions, inorganic and organic compounds (proteins, hormones, metabolites)."


Don't see much additional hydrogen there.

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Old 23-11-2015, 21:20   #33
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
Increase efficiency by 100%, use yellow water as your feed stock, to make brown gas.

Urin has 2 parts hydrogen, as compared to H20 with one part.

do the math.
Sorry to tell you this but. Urin is a medication used to treat incontinence. It has no hydrogen in the chemical makeup ( CzeHaoCINsO3) it does however have 3 oxygen molecules.
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Old 23-11-2015, 22:06   #34
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

Given the context, I assumed it was a misspelling of urine.
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Old 23-11-2015, 22:11   #35
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Given the context, I assumed it was a misspelling of urine.
Given the context me to but you know I just had to I bet he thought it was urine as well but this isn't middle english .
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Old 23-11-2015, 22:18   #36
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Given the context me to but you know I just had to I bet he thought it was urine as well but this isn't middle english .
Maybe he's German.
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Old 23-11-2015, 22:38   #37
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

Where did I put my bs flag?
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Old 23-11-2015, 22:56   #38
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Where did I put my bs flag?
I keep mine on the stern rail . But what bs are you referring to?
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Old 23-11-2015, 23:01   #39
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Where did I put my bs flag?
Here it is:
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Old 23-11-2015, 23:07   #40
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
Yeah, I know it going to take time. And probably not in my life time (65 YO) but it's certainly something to shoot for. After all could you imagine sending text messages around the world economically in 1964 when I started high school. The high school kids of today have a unbelievable advantage, if mankind continues to survive in a modern world.



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Old 23-11-2015, 23:07   #41
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Originally Posted by Simonsays View Post
Hydrogen generation has not been a big deal for the past 100years.
if anything, using it for Solar Power storage could replace natural gas someday.

Generation has not been a big deal because it was being generated from fossil fuels. Generating hydrogen from water is substantially more inefficient.

More important than that is that hydrogen doesn't make a very good portable fuel.
1) It is bulky,
2) Including the storage containers it winds up being comparatively heavy,
3) it is a much greater explosion hazard than gasoline let alone diesel.
4) There is insignificant infrastructure for generation let alone distribution.

In the long run I expect renewable electricity to be used to generate hydrogen and to separate carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and then to synthesize hydrocarbon fuels from those components.
All of the previously listed problems are alleviated going this route. Cost goes way up though which puts a much higher premium on engine efficiency and reducing speed of travel.


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Old 23-11-2015, 23:10   #42
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
But surely you could use the electricity from the fuel cell to electrolyse the water into hydrogen and oxygen, thus feeding the fuel cell?

You could but it would be a losing proposition. You would generate less hydrogen and oxygen than you use to make the electricity for the electrolysis.


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Old 24-11-2015, 00:38   #43
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
???? H2 ????

And besides which:

"Urine is an aqueous solution of greater than 95% water, with the remaining constituents, in order of decreasing concentration urea 9.3 g/L, chloride 1.87 g/L, sodium 1.17 g/L, potassium 0.750 g/L, creatinine 0.670 g/L and other dissolved ions, inorganic and organic compounds (proteins, hormones, metabolites)."


Don't see much additional hydrogen there.


Urine's major constituent is urea, which incorporates four hydrogen atoms per molecule - importantly, less tightly bonded than the hydrogen atoms in water molecules.

Read more at: Producing hydrogen from urine
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Old 24-11-2015, 00:53   #44
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

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Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
Generation has not been a big deal because it was being generated from fossil fuels. Generating hydrogen from water is substantially more inefficient.

More important than that is that hydrogen doesn't make a very good portable fuel.
1) It is bulky,
2) Including the storage containers it winds up being comparatively heavy,
3) it is a much greater explosion hazard than gasoline let alone diesel.
4) There is insignificant infrastructure for generation let alone distribution.

In the long run I expect renewable electricity to be used to generate hydrogen and to separate carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and then to synthesize hydrocarbon fuels from those components.
Electrolysis of urea and urine for solar hydrogen

Abstract

Hybrid photovoltaic (PV) arrays-electrochemical systems have been envisaged as an alternative technology that co-manages an energy–water nexus, yet improving the technical viability and applicability of the hybrids remains a challenge. With this in mind, we studied the hybrid electrochemical system for urea and urine treatment and simultaneous H2 production using BiOx–TiO2 anode and stainless steel cathode couples with different electrolytes (NaCl vs. LiClO4 vs. Na2SO4). In the presence of NaCl, urea electrolysis was found to enhance the cathodic H2 production by a maximum of ca. 20% at low urea concentrations, yet reduce the H2 production at high urea concentrations as compared to water electrolysis. Varying degrees of the synergistic H2 production were attributed to competitive reactions between active chlorine species and urea/urea intermediates for protons and electrons. The synergistic effect by the urea electrolysis disappeared when LiClO4 and Na2SO4 were used as electrolytes indicating the crucial role of chlorine species in the hybrid reactions. In addition, the electrolysis of actual urine was found to successfully operate along with simultaneous generation of H2 even in the absence of externally added electrolytes. This electrolyteless-hybrid electrolysis resulted from the large amounts of chloride and other ionic species originally included in the actual urine sample. A detailed reaction mechanism of urea electrolysis and its application potential in terms of solar hydrogen were discussed.

4
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Old 24-11-2015, 01:48   #45
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Re: Electrical Fuel from Sand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
Electrolysis of urea and urine for solar hydrogen

Abstract

Hybrid photovoltaic (PV) arrays-electrochemical systems have been envisaged as an alternative technology that co-manages an energy–water nexus, yet improving the technical viability and applicability of the hybrids remains a challenge. With this in mind, we studied the hybrid electrochemical system for urea and urine treatment and simultaneous H2 production using BiOx–TiO2 anode and stainless steel cathode couples with different electrolytes (NaCl vs. LiClO4 vs. Na2SO4). In the presence of NaCl, urea electrolysis was found to enhance the cathodic H2 production by a maximum of ca. 20% at low urea concentrations, yet reduce the H2 production at high urea concentrations as compared to water electrolysis. Varying degrees of the synergistic H2 production were attributed to competitive reactions between active chlorine species and urea/urea intermediates for protons and electrons. The synergistic effect by the urea electrolysis disappeared when LiClO4 and Na2SO4 were used as electrolytes indicating the crucial role of chlorine species in the hybrid reactions. In addition, the electrolysis of actual urine was found to successfully operate along with simultaneous generation of H2 even in the absence of externally added electrolytes. This electrolyteless-hybrid electrolysis resulted from the large amounts of chloride and other ionic species originally included in the actual urine sample. A detailed reaction mechanism of urea electrolysis and its application potential in terms of solar hydrogen were discussed.

4


So you're saying that one day we'll have a head that fills the fuel tanks?
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