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Old 13-04-2010, 22:57   #61
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...multihull vs. half boats
Nice...but ever since the Americas Cup the catamarans seem to be one hull short too.
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Old 13-04-2010, 23:11   #62
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It seems to me that this topic of crimp verse solder is a personal decision that may never end, and it really doesn't matter to me what another person wants to do. Each person has to do whatever gives them the most peace of mind, but for me I like to crimp connections and then shrink wrap them.
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Old 13-04-2010, 23:26   #63
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...Each person has to do whatever gives them the most peace of mind
That's right. And the FPO* of my boat liked to simply cut into the insulation of a nearby wire and splice in his new lamp or fan. Give the strands a little twist plus half a roll of electrical tape and presto: everybody's an electrician.

Small advantage. The problem with an intermittent lamp is always nearby and a simple squeeze fixes it for a while.

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Old 14-04-2010, 07:01   #64
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It seems to me that this topic of crimp verse solder is a personal decision that may never end, and it really doesn't matter to me what another person wants to do. Each person has to do whatever gives them the most peace of mind, but for me I like to crimp connections and then shrink wrap them.
Actually it's not. It's an engineering issue and if you go through the formal process and then the years of experience in a suitable industry area it's not. It's just that every " handyman" thinks he
knows about wiring when in fact most haven't a clue and just bodge along which gives rise to the notion that sea water and electrics don't mix. Sure they don't mix when Joe halfbrain installs them. I designed electronic and electrical systems that will survive environments that will wipe out humans in seconds. It's a serious engineering discipline.

Dave
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Old 14-04-2010, 07:39   #65
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I was in an autoparts store yesterday and saw "weatherproof" crimp connectors that had shrink tubing and adhesive seals. They were about 1/3 the price of what the marine boys are selling. Do any of our resident experts know of any reason these would not work as well as the ones in the marine stores?
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Old 14-04-2010, 08:42   #66
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I’d expect cheaper terminals to be made in a cheaper manner, and of cheaper materials.
Some desirable features
Pure copper for maximum conductivity, and Tin plated for corrosion resistance.
Grooved barrels for maximum wire holding strength.
Chamfered barrel openings for easy wire insertion.
Funnel shaped Nylon insulators for excellent insulating properties & ease and speed of use.
Strain-relief double crimp barrel sleeves.
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Old 14-04-2010, 08:53   #67
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Well, I can certainly sympathize on this. I don't trust them either. BUT, crimp connectors + shrink wrap to stabilize the joint seems to work OK *most* of the time.
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Old 14-04-2010, 13:26   #68
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Its important to realise the following

A proper crimp, will generate a Gas tight connection between the terminal and the wire.
Follow this up with proper crimped strain relief and its a joint thats is as strong as the wire connecting it.
Heat shrink adhesive lined tubing is fine, I have my concerns as it precludes inspection in the future. ( and anyway, water has a habit of gaining entry into the smallest spaces, and maynot have a way out)

If you look at car wiring looms, which arguably have a tougher life then boats, ie extremes of heat, high frequency vibration( which is all but missing on boats) and constant thermal cycling, you will not seem adhesive lined covers. Here the wire is crimped to the terminal in bare form, and the strain relief crimp is made, then a cover can be inserted.

Solder on the other hand, is NOT a ,mechanical strain relief, yet that is why many uniformed people solder crimps, ( ie the wire pulls out). Equally if the terminal is anyway big, it can be very difficult to get a good electrical connection as part of teh joint is evitably dry. ( this is especially true for modern high temp non-lead solders, ie RoHS spec). If you can access to a good conductance meter, you can see the effect of the solder, ie a decrease in conductance. Also many crimps are not designed to be soldered to and can be poor surfaces.

Its actually harder to make a good connection using solder then crimps. But crimps are designed to be mated to a particular tool and the rubbish that is non-rachet tools has contributed singlehandidly to their poor reputation ( not to mention, the ones put on with a pliers).
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Old 14-04-2010, 23:27   #69
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Actually it's not. It's an engineering issue and if you go through the formal process and then the years of experience in a suitable industry area it's not. It's just that every " handyman" thinks he
knows about wiring when in fact most haven't a clue and just bodge along which gives rise to the notion that sea water and electrics don't mix. Sure they don't mix when Joe halfbrain installs them. I designed electronic and electrical systems that will survive environments that will wipe out humans in seconds. It's a serious engineering discipline.

Dave
I understand what you're saying about the engineering issue, and I think like you in the type of work I do. I used to be a purest and thought everyone should do the work the way I do, but after many years I came to not really care how others wanted to do their work. The main thing with me was that I did my work the best I could, and if the others wanted to do sub-standard work that was their business. I've trained a lot of people in the right way of doing things (at least I tried to train them...some people are un-trainable), but in the end I've always been reminded of an old saying. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink."
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Old 24-04-2010, 17:24   #70
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To sum it up.....

  1. A crimp connection is good properly done.
  2. Shrink wrap can go either way.
And for God sakes, throw out that Walmart crimper. Good ones are not that expensive!!!!!
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Old 24-04-2010, 18:44   #71
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I understand what you're saying about the engineering issue, and I think like you in the type of work I do. I used to be a purest and thought everyone should do the work the way I do, but after many years I came to not really care how others wanted to do their work. The main thing with me was that I did my work the best I could, and if the others wanted to do sub-standard work that was their business. I've trained a lot of people in the right way of doing things (at least I tried to train them...some people are un-trainable), but in the end I've always been reminded of an old saying. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink."
We have standards for a reason. You need a building permit for a deck, because a bad one can fall off the house during a party. You need a building permit for gas installs, because houses can blow up. The function of a building permit should be to trigger a good inspection, not to make life more expensive and slow thing up, though that is the way it feels.

We need to rant - just a little - to keep wiring on boats safe. I am quite certain bad wiring leading to sump pump failure or fire is one of the leading reasons for loosing boats at the dock. On the water, electrical failures rank pretty high too. And when the FPO sells his boat, perhaps he has passed along one with a dangerous hidden fault that the surveyor may miss. No not really his right, any more than you have a right to pass along a dangerous house and say "let the buyer be ware."

I'm a chemical engineer and I have cleaned up after more than a few expensive messes caused by minor shortcomings in wiring installation.
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Old 25-04-2010, 04:59   #72
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... I used to be a pureist and thought everyone should do the work the way I do, but after many years I came to not really care how others wanted to do their work...
purist - someone who insists on great precision and correctness (especially in the use of words )
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Old 14-06-2010, 04:03   #73
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Hi guys

Some advice please, (and not advice on the type of connector I'm using) I am using a normal 'quick connector' the slide on type to connect a troublesome bow nav light.

The connection will be in the weather, and spray and all that untill the whole unit is Deep Six-ed and a new one is bought in about 12 months.

I intend to 'water proof' is by using 2 sets of shrink tube on each wire.

I was also thinking about putting lanoline over the metal bits of the connectors as well. Is that a good idea?

and would it be better to have the plastic of the wires dry, or greased where the shrink wrap will be shrunk?


Thanks for your help.


One day when I grow I will know how to do all this stuff.... or I will just pay someone to do all the sucker work


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Old 14-06-2010, 04:17   #74
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Sure, grease the "disconnects" prior to shrink wrapping. Silicone sealant would be better, but lanolin is ok.

Ideal Industries - Terminals & Crimps
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Old 14-06-2010, 04:27   #75
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Yeah, the disconnects, maybe, but NOT the insulation.

Use heavy wall adhesive heat shrink. You want the adhesive to adhere to the wire jacket.

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