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Old 10-04-2010, 19:48   #16
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I hated crimp connections until I got a rachetting crimp tool, now I swear by them!

I still do the occasional soldering connection, but...

Tom
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Old 10-04-2010, 19:55   #17
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I have a ratcheting crimper. It's total crap. Does anyone have a source/vendor/manufacturer of a GOOD ratchet crimper?
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Old 10-04-2010, 20:05   #18
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Yep they are weak...

This is a yellow 10-12 butt connector..


I have made thousands and thousands of crimps and never had one fail, but I use the correct tools...

You don't need $1200.00 crimpers as I use, but you do need to spend a little bit more than what you'd pay for a Wal Mart crimper..

The tools I use make certified aircraft crimps for the aerospace industry every day. These tools need to be re-certified every so many crimps and that makes them available on the used market for a decent price. I got mine through a buddy who works for Lear Jet/Bombardier and he got them for me totally reconditioned and re-certified for about 80% less than what they sell for new. I'm not working on planes so I could care less about recertification but they can be re-built and re-certified to spec if I want / need.

Despite these being amazing tools the Anchor Double Ratchet crimper is an excellent value as is their single ratchet crimper for heat shrink connectors..

10-12 Tool

14-16 & 18-22 Tool


P.S. The anchor photo was made with the Anchor Single Ratchet crimp tool for heat shrink crimps, not the super expensive ones..
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Old 10-04-2010, 20:06   #19
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Bubble head, I wish I could help, I bought mine from a German guy who was in a boatyard next to me in Trinidad. I was complaining that I could not find a source and he said he would sell me his and then buy a new one when he went back to Germany.

I had the same problem trying to find one in the US, I went to the local electrical supplier and he had never heard of such a thing but said he would research the item. A week later he said he could get one, over $150US! I declined, and when I got back to the boat yard, the german guy sold e his for $35 US and said he could get them in germany for about $50 new.

Good luck!

Tom

PS What is the problem with your crimper?
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Old 10-04-2010, 20:06   #20
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A good ratchet crimp is less than $100.00 & there are some where you change the die jaws for crimping coax connectors etc. As for the lugs I found a pink colored type which is heat shrink with glue will seal the wire against all on a boat. (brand unknown but is used in aircraft). When you are passing Brisbane Aust pick some up as I have a life supply!! I do agree some of the crimps sold for boats are not worth a bumper.
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Old 10-04-2010, 20:08   #21
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Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
In any properly fused circuit, the fuse will blow (read- melt) far sooner than any solder.

If you have a "shorted appliance and a faulty breaker", think about it - in that case, you'd WANT the solder to melt! The alternative is an electrical fire.

For my purpose, a mechanically fastened and soldered connector is double the protection on one simply crimped.
The problem with soldered connections is not so much with the solder melting as with the solder getting wicked into the stranded cable. This makes it brittle, and when subjected to mechanical vibrations, risks cracking or breaking. Mechanically fastening the soldered connector will not mitigate this risk.
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Old 10-04-2010, 20:12   #22
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Anchor crimper on Amazon

Amazon.com: Ancor 701030 Marine Grade Electrical Double Crimp Ratchet Tool: Sports & Outdoors

$59.14 with free shipping.
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Old 10-04-2010, 20:18   #23
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I have a ratcheting crimper. It's total crap. Does anyone have a source/vendor/manufacturer of a GOOD ratchet crimper?
Bubble,

Which crimper is it? Most any good double ratchet crimper is uni-directional. You need to insert the wire & connector into the correct side of the tool. With the Ancor tool the wire goes in the side with the color coded dots. This side of the crimp die makes the strain relief crimp and the other one makes the wire crimp. The two sides of the dies are not the same size!!


They are called "double crimp" because they make two crimps, one for strain relief and one for the bare wire. If you use the wrong side the crimp will fail.




Also you need to use the proper connectors with the proper crimper. Any good quality insulated double crimp connector will be made of three pieces. Use a cheapo terminal, with only two pieces and thin walls, and the tool will not get a good crimp because the connector is too small for the crimp dies.
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Old 10-04-2010, 20:22   #24
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The problem with soldered connections is not so much with the solder melting as with the solder getting wicked into the stranded cable. This makes it brittle, and when subjected to mechanical vibrations, risks cracking or breaking. Mechanically fastening the soldered connector will not mitigate this risk.
I'm not sure there is much distinction between strands on which solder has wicked with tinned wire which is essentially the same thing. Both still remain flexible.

One either type, you have a solid area interconnected with stranded loose wire.

I've seen the how much weight can you put on a crimped connector example before but that isn't really relevant. A better test which would resolve this debate would involve subjecting both to similar vibration for prolonged periods and to my knowledge, there is no real-world test showing the result.
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Old 10-04-2010, 20:24   #25
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Eh, it's some Chinese knock-off. I've tried both directions. If you tug, the wires pull right out.
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Old 10-04-2010, 20:35   #26
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I'm having a hard time believing soldered connecions just melting. I would tend to believe if they melt there was a bigger problem already.
I'm less than halfway reading this thread and have to say something.
I've made my living soldering since 1965 and have NEVER seen a bad connection come back to me.
39/61% solder melts at 361 degrees F. If there is any lower temp solder than that normally sold for electronic assembly, I am not aware of it.

If a connection is soldered (which I heartily endorse), tie it down with a zip tie. End of discussion. ( IMHO, of course ! )

One can SEE if it's properly soldered. Crimps, not so much....
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Old 10-04-2010, 20:42   #27
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Quote:
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Yep they are weak...

This is a yellow 10-12 butt connector..


I have made thousands and thousands of crimps and never had one fail, but I use the correct tools...

You don't need $1200.00 crimpers as I use, but you do need to spend a little bit more than what you'd pay for a Wal Mart crimper..

The tools I use make certified aircraft crimps for the aerospace industry every day. These tools need to be re-certified every so many crimps and that makes them available on the used market for a decent price. I got mine through a buddy who works for Lear Jet/Bombardier and he got them for me totally reconditioned and re-certified for about 80% less than what they sell for new. I'm not working on planes so I could care less about recertification but they can be re-built and re-certified to spec if I want / need.

Despite these being amazing tools the Anchor Double Ratchet crimper is an excellent value.
I've had equal percentages with my personal history of connections, but my Weller 100/140 soldering iron (from the '60's) and Weller temperature controlled soldering station WTCP series (from the '80's) seem to be doing the job.
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Old 10-04-2010, 21:52   #28
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I'm not sure there is much distinction between strands on which solder has wicked with tinned wire which is essentially the same thing. Both still remain flexible.
Not true. When solder wicks into stranded wire, the individual strands become fused. Effectively, stranded wire becomes solid.

This effect is noted in NASA-STD-8739.4 (Soldered Electrical Connections), which states: "Measures taken for stress relief of soldered connectors shall be sufficient to assure that all wire bending will take place in a flexible, unwicked part of the conductor. In all instances, stranded conductors will experience solder-wicking during attachment. The conductor will be rigid up to the point where the wicking stops and flexible beyond it. Wire movement concentrates stress at the point where wicking stops, and normal harness handling can produce conductor fatigue and failure."


I'm not suggesting that properly executed soldered connections can never be used, only that the common failure mode is breaking, not melting the solder. Still, properly made crimped connections are generally more reliable than soldered joints when subjected to vibrations or flexing.
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Old 10-04-2010, 22:00   #29
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Let's throw another variable into the mix shall we? Solder, a lead/tin mix, is more? or less? flexible than copper wire?

Where is the actual truth of this flexing story?
More to the point, if the connection is not moving due to vibration by being tied down or other mechanical means, what's the problem?
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Old 10-04-2010, 22:06   #30
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I'm not suggesting that properly executed soldered connections can never be used, only that the common failure mode is breaking, not melting the solder. Still, properly made crimped connections are generally more reliable than soldered joints when subjected to vibrations or flexing.
not to belabor the point (any more) but I've heard this said but never seen it demonstrated nor has it been my experience.


The reality is a proper joint regardless of which you choose can fail and we can all cite anecdotal example of failure of each type but it proves nothing except personal experience is different and there is no absolute right or wrong here..
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