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Old 11-07-2018, 15:21   #1
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Electric genset raw water alternative to march

Genset orientation in our boat is wrong and the novelty of removing my water pump">raw water pump to change the impeller is wearing thin as is the skin on my knuckles.

I have read most of the threads and everyone seems to use the march pumps, great if you are in the US I guess but in Australia they are pricey to get imported and more so now.

They seem to be no more than a 500gph magnetic drive centrifugal pump that can handle salt so is there a compelling reason why another brand can't be used?

Thinking of something like below for 1/4 price.

Quote:
Design without axle sleeve, liquid passing through is sealed well without leakage;
Extraordinary high lift and large flow;
Anti-corrosion design, extensively used for industrial and aquariums- Ideal for salt water;
Heavy duty, durable and reliable;
In-line use only;
Thermal Overload Protection for the motor;
True Magnetic-drive pumps are completely sealed and do not have shaft seals to wear out.
Only a single casing O-ring is used and prevents the liquid from leaking.
It is manufactured using the latest engineering plastics to prevent corrosion.
The permanently split capacitor start (PSC) motors are totally enclosed fan cooled ( TEFC).
Continuously rated and Class E insulation,
Thermal overload protection and suitable for indoor use.



eBay
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Old 11-07-2018, 15:43   #2
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Electric genset raw water alternative to march

Nope that is all they are.
Just widely available on this side is all. The March I use is totally submersible, not that I will.
I see no reason why that pump wonít work.
Iíd suspect that there are any number of fish pond pumps that would work also as they are hooked up to a fountain and tossed into the pond and run for a long time.
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Old 11-07-2018, 15:50   #3
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Re: Electric genset raw water alternative to march

Great.

Next problem I will have is my genset installation does not have a 240v plug that only works when the genset is providing power.

I have a plug nearby, but that works continuously off of the inverter so not suitable.
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Old 11-07-2018, 17:21   #4
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Electric genset raw water alternative to march

Where you connect your boats power to the generator itself is where I wired into. On mine there is a terminal block, yours may have an electrical box, but somewhere the generator wiring ends, and the boats begins.
I did it there so that anytime the generator is making power, the pump is running. My generator comes online right about when it hits full RPM, so a two or three sec delay before the pump kicks in, so there is a very few seconds of running with no water, you can hear the water flow when it begins, there is a distinct change in exhaust.
Also when you turn the generator off, the pump quits, but the engine is still spinning down and this blows the water out of the exhaust on mine, so the exhaust is dry.
You also canít fill the exhaust from cranking the engine, no matter how long you crank it, cause the pump stays off until the generator comes online.
The only new failure possible that I can think of is if your engine is running but your generator isnít making power, then it would burn up your exhaust if you let it keep running, but on mine, there is no mistaking the difference in sound when there is no water flow.
Same thing as if your impeller pump failed on a standard installation.
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Old 11-07-2018, 18:52   #5
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Re: Electric genset raw water alternative to march

Sensational
And just to put another set of eyes on for confirmation, that would be lug eyes and wire onto these three terminals.
I have 10amp extension lead cable available onboard so that should be more than adequate for that pump?
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:42   #6
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Re: Electric genset raw water alternative to march

I have had my moments with March pumps and they are expensive even when you get them while in US. They seem to have a life, not as long as price suggests
BUT while you have found what I have been looking for, a cheaper alternative be mindful that they are NOT self priming like Jabsco type pumps and even if below water level, can lose prime (and not self re-prime) especially when conditions are rough.
I would put an alarm /cut out on generator for loss of flow/prime and some simple way of priming like a squeeze bulb a la outboard prime bulb with an isolation valve to hand prime when needed.

There are a line of Italian self priming mag drive pumps in all voltages, very good but make March look a bargain.
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:53   #7
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Re: Electric genset raw water alternative to march

10 Ga is way bigger than you need, but wonít hurt. You likely can run The whole Boat off of 10Ga wire, pump likely only needs 14 or so.
However I would not use an extension cord myself, Iíd wire it with tinned Marine wire, and it should have a circuit protection device.
I canít comment on your generators wiring, but itís real easy to verify with a multi meter to be sure. I am used to black = hot, white = neutral and Green = ground, but Iím also talking US 110VAC too.

I have never had any of mine lose prime, but it could happen.
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Old 12-07-2018, 13:20   #8
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Re: Electric genset raw water alternative to march

When I worked in the boatyard March pumps were a funny thing most lasted a long time but every once in a while we would have some die in a year or two, same models never figured out why. Put a little giant in a boat for someone I know a few years ago and it still seems good, much less expensive. Still not sure how long it will last thou.
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Old 12-07-2018, 13:54   #9
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Re: Electric genset raw water alternative to march

For longevity, March pumps need to be oiled with 3-in-1 oil every few months or so. There are little oil galleries above the carrier bearings on either end of the drive motor and a couple of squirts of oil is all it takes.

Note that Cal Pumps, and other "water fountain" pumps are not air cooled and, if not immersed in water--as would be the case with a fountain--have a very short life-span. (Ask anyone that's tried to use them on an air conditioner!)

FWIW...
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Old 12-07-2018, 14:00   #10
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Re: Electric genset raw water alternative to march

I will have a circuit protection device inline and pump would be well below the waterline so can't see prime being a problem.

I can see wiring directly in as being problematic as i have a 3 way power switch (genset-off-shore) on the fuse panel.
Procedure is start genset, turn switch to genset, 30 seconds or so later load comes on (power to pump)
Reverse is switch to off (now no power to pump) wait 30 seconds, shut down genset.

Might be better off investigating power to pump via oil pressure switch but , as yet, I have no idea how that would work.
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Old 12-07-2018, 14:04   #11
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Re: Electric genset raw water alternative to march

Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
.

Note that Cal Pumps, and other "water fountain" pumps are not air cooled and, if not immersed in water--as would be the case with a fountain--have a very short life-span. (Ask anyone that's tried to use them on an air conditioner!)

FWIW...
The proposed pump I linked to claims to be fan cooled
Quote:
The permanently split capacitor start (PSC) motors are totally enclosed fan cooled ( TEFC).
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Old 12-07-2018, 15:40   #12
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Electric genset raw water alternative to march

Reason I said wire it direct was to bypass that shorepower / generator switch. You want water flow very soon after it starts, and you want it to be idiot proof. Best way I know to do that is to make it so that if itís making power, pumps running. That switch will prevent power back feeding from shorepower or inverter and running the pump without the generator running, if you wire it straight to the generator.
Wire it after that switch, and likely the pump will come on with shorepower or inverter, filling your engine with salt water.
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Old 12-07-2018, 15:44   #13
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Electric genset raw water alternative to march

Now that is think about it a minute, I can see how having the switch to generator with the inverter on and not the generator may feed power to the generator, and that isnít safe.
Having that switch to shorepower with the inverter on, may power the shorepower circuit, and that isnít safe.
Iíll have to check mine, but I bet inverter on, generator and shorepower off, the shorepower circuit is powered by the inverter.

That has nothing to do with the water pump though, has to do with inverter powering the AC system on the boat.
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Old 12-07-2018, 18:24   #14
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Re: Electric genset raw water alternative to march

Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
For longevity, March pumps need to be oiled with 3-in-1 oil every few months or so. There are little oil galleries above the carrier bearings on either end of the drive motor and a couple of squirts of oil is all it takes.

Note that Cal Pumps, and other "water fountain" pumps are not air cooled and, if not immersed in water--as would be the case with a fountain--have a very short life-span. (Ask anyone that's tried to use them on an air conditioner!)

FWIW...
I have a catamaran with 3 air conditioners, one 400 gpd RO system and a 5
kw genset, all of which utilize AC powered raw water pumps. To minimize spares, I standardized the inventory with March and Cal submersible/mag-drive pumps, nominally 900 gph, each with the power cable fitted with a standard AC plug connected to a dedicated AC supply or the genset output.

If the genset shuts down due to grass in the strainer, I can immediately cool and restart the genset (after cleaning the strainer) by temporarily plugging the the pump into an electrical outlet powered by my inverter.

In 12 years, I've only had one failure (CalPump) after 1100 genset running hours. All are below waterline and none of the pumps are submerged.
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Old 12-07-2018, 19:32   #15
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Re: Electric genset raw water alternative to march

Be careful pumping water thru an engine that is not running.
Many if not most you can fill the exhaust and this will flood the motor with water thru an open exhaust valve, which can hydro lock it at least and can bend a rod and or corrode they cylinder
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