Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-04-2012, 19:36   #76
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Marathon Fl.
Boat: Columbia 45 / Iroquois 30
Posts: 113
Images: 3
Re: Electric fence for boat

I got some good advice from a boating friend of mine. just keep a water bottle of gasoline and a lighter next to your bed. If some one gets in start spraying every where and on whom ever you can get. The smell and the fact that its kinda like a nuclear weapon in a cabin is usually a pretty good deterrent. If theyre going to take me out its matter of them determining who is willing to die with you.
__________________

__________________
sushirama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 19:41   #77
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by downunder

Dave,

From your posts there is no doubt you are paranoid about guns but all we are talking about here is the cheap garden variety agricultural electric fence.

Sheeesh.....

Electric Fence Australia - pet and farm electric fencing supplies
Actually I'm a bit of a gun nut, I own quite a few including pistols and semi autos , rare enough this side of the pond. I target shoot

Dave
__________________

__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 19:43   #78
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret
I wonder how it would go with the local authorities the first time some innocent boat boy or local looking to sell you something comes along side in the early morning while you are asleep, grabs your electric rail from their low freeboard vessel, gets shocked and falls in while hitting their head on the rail on the way in. Or even if its the thief you were trying to catch, good luck proving it if he falls in and drowns because you've shocked him! Could end very poorly. There are much better methods of security. Get a good dog for instance. At least then they have to actually board the boat unasked before bad things happen. Shocking people because they've just touched your boat is a bad idea, IMHO. Unsafe and unwise.
+1 I suspect while they argued the toss, they'd impound your boat too.

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 19:46   #79
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by sushirama
I got some good advice from a boating friend of mine. just keep a water bottle of gasoline and a lighter next to your bed. If some one gets in start spraying every where and on whom ever you can get. The smell and the fact that its kinda like a nuclear weapon in a cabin is usually a pretty good deterrent. If theyre going to take me out its matter of them determining who is willing to die with you.
That must be one of the most hilarious things I've heard yet. no wonder it was known as MAD

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 19:48   #80
Registered User
 
ReMetau's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Marathon, FL
Boat: Hans Christian 33
Posts: 648
Re: Electric fence for boat

Sounds like paranoia to me.
__________________
Don & Diana
s/v ReMetau - a Hans Christian 33
http://www.remetau.com
ReMetau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 19:55   #81
Registered User
 
stillbuilding's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Boat: Custom Freya 20m
Posts: 961
Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret
I wonder how it would go with the local authorities the first time some innocent boat boy or local looking to sell you something comes along side in the early morning while you are asleep, grabs your electric rail from their low freeboard vessel, gets shocked and falls in while hitting their head on the rail on the way in. Or even if its the thief you were trying to catch, good luck proving it if he falls in and drowns because you've shocked him! Could end very poorly. There are much better methods of security. Get a good dog for instance. At least then they have to actually board the boat unasked before bad things happen. Shocking people because they've just touched your boat is a bad idea, IMHO. Unsafe and unwise.
Sensible point of course. Needs judicious activation - like any other electric fence. Probably could mount the same argument for just falling off my boat, or getting hit by the boom etc. sounds like the USA.
__________________
stillbuilding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 20:00   #82
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainKJ

talk about insulting,,,next you are go-in to tell me I have a small pee pee,,,,why would you leave an electric fence on when you are peeing off the back????maybe you would I would not,,,the fence only be used at night when you are sleeping.
Sorry for all the replies together I wasn't being insulting. I was contrasting the use of "shock tactics" to illustrate a point. You brought up a case from 40 years ago to illustrate a point relevant to day . Why because it has a shock value , yet on closer examination it's doesn't support your point. You use it because there simply isn't that many incidents.

This is a common tactic amongst those seeking to polarise a debate. The debate needing polarisation because otherwise the justification falls away. The gun lobby in the US is a past master.

Had you said ( xxx tragedy in1974) then of course the effect on the readers is much less

I remember moving into my first house. I was in a very unfashionable area at the time and we had some concerns about crime. I overheard s group of elderly women discussion a horrendous robbery on a house two doors down. It left me concerned. Then I asked at the local shop yes they said it occurred in 1964 and 10 pounds was stolen. Suddenly in that context the threat level was somewhat reduced.

Don't get me wrong I'm not belittling what happened the Graphams, but to lock ourselves in a virtual prison to escape the very very occasional tradegy is misplaced thinking. I'm remind of the " trade liberty for security deserve neither " quote

This why I respond to these threads firstly , they are pure fantasy , secondly they stoke an unjustified paranoia and yiu might as wel,speculate about using men from mars as security guards then talk about electric fences and god help us big tesla coils.

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 20:24   #83
Registered User
 
cheoah's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North Carolina, USA
Boat: Moccasins and pony
Posts: 996
Re: Electric fence for boat

Stillbuilding, the fence chargers I install on my farm are perhaps different than the one in the photo from South Africa, or the ones I've seen in Latin America, that have continuous output. On mine, the output is measured in Joules, and they hit you hard, for 1/50,000 of a second, or something like that. The only thing that has ever died in one of mine, that I know of, was a snapping turtle. but he bit it, and did not let go... It is a psychological barrier for cattle, and if they are well trained, it is hard to get them to go through it or over it. They have more earth contact, and are more sensitive. To me, it feels like a big thud, like being hit by a 2 x 4....not a snap or a pop, but knock you down kind whack. I rarely get hit, but trying to grab a wet calf that keeps shocking itself on a fence during a cattle move (they don't understand) or something like that gets me, and sometimes a gate chain sneaks over and makes contact, and sometimes my staff like to play jokes. Once in a while my truck makes contact and the truck gets me....

I really don't know how the ground would work, I install (4) 8' ground rods at least for my pastures. Previous posters are right that the ground completes the circuit, so in dry areas with dry soils, they install many more feet of ground, as well as alternate hot and ground wires on the fence. My guess is you might get it to snap someone and surprise them, but might just piss them off.

I've been hit by electric fences too many times, I avoid it, but my fences are very hot. We measure with a special voltmeter, and mine typically read 9 Kv, but the real measure is Joules. A 1.3 J unit would be fine, but I think there are better ways to keep people off your boat. Fence chargers can be loud, and I would have to think there might be some RF interference like others suggest. I also use lots of temporary electric fence that uses stainless filament in polypropylene. From time to time, when the hot fence gets shorted, it can arc and melt the polypropylene. I would worry about fire hazard if you are absent.

Good luck-
__________________
cheoah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 21:06   #84
Registered User
 
ulpilot45's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montague mi
Boat: gulfstar sloop 44ft
Posts: 77
Paranoia.. tell that to those who are violated. I pray you are never raped or your loved ones. Then maybe it wouldn't be so easy to say paranoid to several post that you don't see fit for your life. Instead tell that chick it was her fault she was in a quiet harbor or walk way. Tell her she sould have not worried so much. A little forsight and forthought might set her mind at ease but then that might take some tenderness that apparently seem to be lacking . Saftey is what people are asking about not if it fits ur selfcentered self. Js
Sounds like some people should drink some rum[its legal everywhere]n pass the eff out plz
__________________
ulpilot45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 23:46   #85
Senior Cruiser
 
s/v Beth's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Valiant 40 (1975)
Posts: 4,066
Re: Electric fence for boat

Man this thread was awful. I need to get out my Prozac Rx. How about two Pit Bulls in the cockpit, and s/s grates over all the hatches? That ought to slow'em down till I get up.
__________________
s/v Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 00:31   #86
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Re: Electric fence for boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
All you mentioned concerned either pension entitlements or census. That's different. Your land home cettainly in most developed countries is afforded certain rights. A boat is a means of transport and is subject to different rights. Any closer examination of the laws will reveal it do.

Dave
Um, you did read where it had Private Dwelling and boat in the same sentence?

and here's some more for you
Quote:
My name is Chris Ayres, I am a retired lawyer my areas of expertise are administrative law, taxation law and human rights.
Being retired I cannot appear in court for anyone, nor can I give legal advice. Should you require legal advice or representation you must seek the aid of a practising lawyer either through a community legal service or private solicitor. What I outline in this article is merely legal information. You should seek legal advice from a practising lawyer and should not rely on what I have written.

Under common law, your vessel is your place of residence if it is as a judge once described it "The place of residence of an individual is determined ... by reference to where he eats, sleeps and has his settled or usual abode... he may also reside where habitually lives, even if this is in hotels or on a yacht or some other place of abode…"
A houseboat is also included in the definition of a 'premise' in Queensland under the Residential Tenancies Act (Qld) 1994.

In taxation law, a vessel has long been seen as a place not just of residence (capital gains tax legislation is expansive and includes a vessel as a place of abode, goods and services tax law specifically includes a floating home and the Income Tax Assessment Act (1997) includes a "houseboat or other mobile home" as a 'dwelling'. Under taxation law, it is recently been decided that you can even have a 'home-office' for which you can claim a taxation deduction on a vessel!

Finally, the Criminal Code of Queensland also gives a lot of defence of a vessel:

278 Defense of possession of real property or vessel with claim of right

When a person is in peaceable possession of any land, structure, or vessel, with a claim of right, it is lawful for the person, and for any person lawfully assisting him or her or acting by his or her authority, to use such force as is reasonably necessary in order to defend the person's possession, even against a person who is entitled by law to the possession of the property, provided that he or she does not do grievous bodily harm to such person.

So your vessel is not a vehicle, it is a place of residence. As such you may claim the legal protection normally accorded a place or residence.

Australian boat owners rights
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 00:51   #87
Registered User
 
stillbuilding's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Boat: Custom Freya 20m
Posts: 961
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheoah
Stillbuilding, the fence chargers I install on my farm are perhaps different than the one in the photo from South Africa, or the ones I've seen in Latin America, that have continuous output. On mine, the output is measured in Joules, and they hit you hard, for 1/50,000 of a second, or something like that. The only thing that has ever died in one of mine, that I know of, was a snapping turtle. but he bit it, and did not let go... It is a psychological barrier for cattle, and if they are well trained, it is hard to get them to go through it or over it. They have more earth contact, and are more sensitive. To me, it feels like a big thud, like being hit by a 2 x 4....not a snap or a pop, but knock you down kind whack. I rarely get hit, but trying to grab a wet calf that keeps shocking itself on a fence during a cattle move (they don't understand) or something like that gets me, and sometimes a gate chain sneaks over and makes contact, and sometimes my staff like to play jokes. Once in a while my truck makes contact and the truck gets me....

I really don't know how the ground would work, I install (4) 8' ground rods at least for my pastures. Previous posters are right that the ground completes the circuit, so in dry areas with dry soils, they install many more feet of ground, as well as alternate hot and ground wires on the fence. My guess is you might get it to snap someone and surprise them, but might just piss them off.

I've been hit by electric fences too many times, I avoid it, but my fences are very hot. We measure with a special voltmeter, and mine typically read 9 Kv, but the real measure is Joules. A 1.3 J unit would be fine, but I think there are better ways to keep people off your boat. Fence chargers can be loud, and I would have to think there might be some RF interference like others suggest. I also use lots of temporary electric fence that uses stainless filament in polypropylene. From time to time, when the hot fence gets shorted, it can arc and melt the polypropylene. I would worry about fire hazard if you are absent.

Good luck-
I could cope with people being annoyed on occasion if they should not be on board anyway. Bit like being barked at by a dog - that can be irritating too. In the situations where I might use it could be an acceptable cost. Have usual caution signage i guess.
__________________
stillbuilding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 00:58   #88
Registered User
 
stillbuilding's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Boat: Custom Freya 20m
Posts: 961
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth
Man this thread was awful. I need to get out my Prozac Rx. How about two Pit Bulls in the cockpit, and s/s grates over all the hatches? That ought to slow'em down till I get up.
My wife's two chihuahuas will be on board - does that count?

And yes, i do have a grid for the companionway. Don't you think that reasonable? Just like locking your car door when parking I reckon.
__________________
stillbuilding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 06:39   #89
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 718
Re: Electric fence for boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainKJ View Post
Here in the US of A it is the West Virginia's you have to watch out for. Just watch the movie Deliverance and you will see what I mean
That was in Georgia. For West Virginia, you've gotta watch Wrong Turn. Those dudes in Deliverance are wimps compared to these guys

Eric
__________________
fairbank56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 14:46   #90
Registered User
 
capn_billl's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Houston,Tx
Boat: Maxum 37'
Posts: 1,587
Re: Electric fence for boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
for god sake Bill , you really don't think like that do you. You must be convinced the worlds a bad place, .
I'm not saying the world is a bad place at all, just that there ARE bad people out there. The odds of someone encountering the few bad people are small, but the attitude of ,"it can't happen to me", insures the bad guys will come out on top of any encounter.

My philisophical attitude is not that I am likely to be attacked, (although I have been in the past), but that the world would be a better place if there were real consequences to bad behaviour like armed robbery.

UNfortunately there are few countries with good enough justice systems to successfully find and prosecute criminals, particularly in drug trafficing areas.
__________________

__________________
capn_billl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
electric

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crew Wanted: Crew wanted for one/two deliveries Mikey1 Crew Archives 14 04-05-2012 09:45
A horror week for Australian boating BlueSun Cruising News & Events 10 17-04-2012 03:25
2006 Dolphin Catamaran For Sale, BARGAIN! Woodbrook Classifieds Archive 5 13-04-2012 07:18
Old boat search Capt Nemo Boat Ownership & Making a Living 1 09-04-2012 07:06
beau's boat Indonesia beau Multihull Sailboats 1 08-04-2012 21:22



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:31.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.