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Old 28-06-2014, 17:54   #1
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Dual power 220/110

I bought a former charter boat that is wired for 220

The only thing running on 220 is the Hot Water Heater, Battery charger and several electrical outlets through out the boat.

I had planned all along to remove all the 220 wiring and outlets and replace them with a 110 system but then someone suggested keeping the 220 system intact and adding 110 shore power.

That appeals to me.

Does anyone here have both on board?
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Old 28-06-2014, 18:21   #2
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Re: Dual power 220/110

do you have 240v 60hz American power or 230v 50hz UK power?

240 is commonally called 220 but that would mean you already have 120v (110) power so I don't understand your question.
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Old 28-06-2014, 18:28   #3
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Re: Dual power 220/110

I don't understand why you would want both on board?
To me it boils down to what appliances you are going to have on board long term and that is dependent upon where you plan to cruise.

My experience with appliances is that many manufacturers cater to the US market and make dedicated 110v stuff for US market. In Asia where I hang manufacturers tend to sell multi-volt stuff.

I am often "almost" suckered when I go to US, find something I want and a voltage check reveals 110 only. Frequency should also be considered.

I always hunt for 100/250v 50/60 hertz stuff for maximum flexibility.
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Old 28-06-2014, 18:41   #4
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Re: Dual power 220/110

Quote:
Originally Posted by smac999 View Post
do you have 240v 60hz American power or 230v 50hz UK power?

240 is commonally called 220 but that would mean you already have 120v (110) power so I don't understand your question.

230V 50 but I would just call it 220

Sorry you don't understand
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Old 28-06-2014, 18:53   #5
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Re: Dual power 220/110

Since my boat was built in Europe, it came wired for both 110v and 220v. Since we live in the US, I could see little reason for having all the 220v wiring so I wrecked it all out. Now that I'm almost half way through a circumnavigation, I realize what a stupid decision that was. Very few of the countries we have visited use 110v and now I have an ugly extension cord draped through my main saloon that runs my air conditioner. I think being equipped for both voltages is a great idea. Since no manufacturer makes a 110v/220v inverter/charger, I'm considering adding a 220v inverter/charger.

Fair winds and calm seas.
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Old 28-06-2014, 19:12   #6
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Re: Dual power 220/110

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Originally Posted by nhschneider View Post
Since my boat was built in Europe, it came wired for both 110v and 220v. Since we live in the US, I could see little reason for having all the 220v wiring so I wrecked it all out. Now that I'm almost half way through a circumnavigation, I realize what a stupid decision that was. Very few of the countries we have visited use 110v and now I have an ugly extension cord draped through my main saloon that runs my air conditioner. I think being equipped for both voltages is a great idea. Since no manufacturer makes a 110v/220v inverter/charger, I'm considering adding a 220v inverter/charger.

Fair winds and calm seas.

You are the person I was looking for!! Thank You for taking time to respond.

The battery charger onboard can switch back and forth so I think that can easily be wired to go both ways safely.

I have a 220 inverter installed now so that could be left alone.

Just based on your post I think I am going to leave the 220 side intact and just install a few 110 outlets on a new shore power connection.

The hot water is connected to the engine so if I really wanted luke warm water I'll run the engine for awhile.

My last boat had numerous 110 lights and and an equal amount of 12V lights. This boat has only 12V lighting.

For the time being you have swayed my decision! I am hopeful I will one day get the boat to Europe...Looking at the 220 outlets and breakers will keep my dream alive!

Thanks again
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Old 29-06-2014, 04:13   #7
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Re: Dual power 220/110

I second the last response. My boat was made in S Africa but wired for 110. I am now in Europe and one my first chores was to finish installing a 220v 50hz system independent from the 110. It has made life much easier for the last two years. I can step down the 220 to 110 with transformer but have to watch the Hz issue. I generally get my 110 through an inverter because of the 60hz.

As far as hot water is concerned, I just had to run a 220 wire and change the 110 element to 220. Hz was not an issue. The element only took about 20 minutes to switch.

Keep the 220 and add a 110 system but I also agree if you can get equipment that uses both don't pass it up.
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Old 29-06-2014, 04:34   #8
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Re: Dual power 220/110

Here is an explanation for the confusion during the early part of this thread:

US 240V power has two hot wires, a neutral and a ground. Connect between the two hots and you get 240V. Connect from one of the hots to neutral and you get 120V.

European 230V systems have one hot, one neutral and one ground. Connect hot to neutral and you get 230V. There is no way to get 115V. So if you want 110V for use in US based shore power systems, you have to add a whole new system, separate from the 230V European system.

That is what the OP was asking about, albeit unclearly.

David
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Old 29-06-2014, 06:21   #9
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Re: Dual power 220/110

SilentO...

We are in the same boat so to speak... Euro 220 wired in a "currently" 110 world! I think you saw the big picture in saying "both", I wouldn't rip out a thing... We don't plan on being in 110 land forever, and it's already pointed out how not having a 220 system is a serious drawback...

Our eventual plan is an additional 110 shore power connection install, split to a 10kva 110/220 transformer wired up to the main panel, AND a simple 110 panel for "outlets in the boat" circuit. We have a ton of "outlet converters" , and for the most part they work to supply the 110 shizit plugged into the Euro 220 outlets, but it's wonky having a transformer at every outlet...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
I always hunt for 100/250v 50/60 hertz stuff for maximum flexibility.
Step 1... Almost all laptop chargers, phone, USB are this way already... Now we too look for "world voltage" input when buying stuff...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhschneider View Post
Since my boat was built in Europe, it came wired for both 110v and 220v. Since we live in the US, I could see little reason for having all the 220v wiring so I wrecked it all out. Now that I'm almost half way through a circumnavigation, I realize what a stupid decision that was. Very few of the countries we have visited use 110v and now I have an ugly extension cord draped through my main saloon that runs my air conditioner. I think being equipped for both voltages is a great idea. Since no manufacturer makes a 110v/220v inverter/charger, I'm considering adding a 220v inverter/charger.

Fair winds and calm seas.
This was my fear, albeit I'm way more of an "adder" than a "ripper outer"... Recent charger research revealed many a dual voltage inverter, but not the combi... ie.... Amazon.com: Magnum Energy MS4024PAE 24V Pure Sine Wave Inverter 240VAC: Patio, Lawn & Garden

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentOption View Post
You are the person I was looking for!! Thank You for taking time to respond.

The battery charger onboard can switch back and forth so I think that can easily be wired to go both ways safely.

I have a 220 inverter installed now so that could be left alone.

Just based on your post I think I am going to leave the 220 side intact and just install a few 110 outlets on a new shore power connection.

The hot water is connected to the engine so if I really wanted luke warm water I'll run the engine for awhile.

My last boat had numerous 110 lights and and an equal amount of 12V lights. This boat has only 12V lighting.

For the time being you have swayed my decision! I am hopeful I will one day get the boat to Europe...Looking at the 220 outlets and breakers will keep my dream alive!

Thanks again
I think this is best... BTW... our 220 hot water heater can tolerate 120 just fine, hardly any noticeable difference... The other way around needs what Ostinato below worked around perfectly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ostinato View Post
I second the last response. My boat was made in S Africa but wired for 110. I am now in Europe and one my first chores was to finish installing a 220v 50hz system independent from the 110. It has made life much easier for the last two years. I can step down the 220 to 110 with transformer but have to watch the Hz issue. I generally get my 110 through an inverter because of the 60hz.

As far as hot water is concerned, I just had to run a 220 wire and change the 110 element to 220. Hz was not an issue. The element only took about 20 minutes to switch.

Keep the 220 and add a 110 system but I also agree if you can get equipment that uses both don't pass it up.
Super info here!
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Old 29-06-2014, 09:14   #10
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Re: Dual power 220/110

Great reply! Thanks

All that's left now is to decide on white or yellow shore power cable...So many decisions to make. What does the color say about the person? The boat?
On my last boat we had one of each...I think that sends a message you go both ways of course the white cord was filthy dirty all time I hate it when people make assumptions.

I just hope someone has some good insight on cable color!

Well I know that will obviously be humor to only a few people here and at least one person isat this very moment, hammering out well thought out reply based on the formula for amps, volts, watts, current, psychology and phase of the moon!

Thanks to everyone who responded.
And...My wife is so happy to hear we wont be disassembling anything for the time being.



I am going back to drinking and contemplating life!

Cheers!
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Old 29-06-2014, 09:59   #11
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Re: Dual power 220/110

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentOption View Post
Great reply! Thanks

All that's left now is to decide on white or yellow shore power cable...So many decisions to make. What does the color say about the person? The boat?
On my last boat we had one of each...I think that sends a message you go both ways of course the white cord was filthy dirty all time I hate it when people make assumptions.

I just hope someone has some good insight on cable color!

Well I know that will obviously be humor to only a few people here and at least one person isat this very moment, hammering out well thought out reply based on the formula for amps, volts, watts, current, psychology and phase of the moon!

Thanks to everyone who responded.
And...My wife is so happy to hear we wont be disassembling anything for the time being.



I am going back to drinking and contemplating life!

Cheers!
You bet Bud!

Let's address your last line first:

I am going back to drinking and contemplating life!

I think this is the best self advice I've heard...

I've got a wonky workaround that I'm doing for the time being... I hesitate to share as the electron heads like to pounce on bad ideas... BUT... They're all great guys, and wanna help...

I've got a standard 30A boat side to my cord/socket, and a 50A 120/240 male plugged into a 50A 120/240 service... Not all are dual voltage, so do some research... Anyway... There are two hot leads in this plus a neutral and ground... I've got the 2 hot and ground wired to the boat...
The 30A cord is plenty cause at 240, we're halving our current load...

The eventual plan is to have a 30A and 50A boat receptacles, have the 30A/120 wired to a panel distributing to a 120/240 buck/boost, AND a run of outlets, the 50A120/240 wired to both the 120 and 240 panels...

There's some elegant solution with isolation transformers forming in my head, but it really looks like a preschool drawing of a zebra... ***squinting*** or is that a turkey???

Most importantly... Our cable color choice... While white is right... er nice... They do tend to show their filthy side... I think it's just the company we keep...

Oh well...
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Old 29-06-2014, 10:20   #12
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Re: Dual power 220/110

I am going to just keep it very simple for right now and add a separate panel with 3 breakers, volt and amp meters.
The distribution breakers will power outlets...I will put one at the nav station or near, one in the main cabin and one in the galley. as near the running water as possible.

The 2nd for the battery charger and then a 3rd for hot water.

Based on my near term sailing plans that will suffice for now.
I have plenty of room for the 110 panel near the main breaker panel.

I will bring 110 30 amp shore power aboard through a single power inlet using a White 125V Cable, Marinco #CS30-50.

I think that is a very simple solution for me. The 220 side can sit dormant for now.
If I add A/C or heat I'll address that power requirement then. For now....All I need to run is a battery charger and...maybe a blender.

For everyone/engineers grinding their teeth saying it's not 110 and 220 yes we are all aware of that.

The power in my last marina was more like 90V
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Old 29-06-2014, 11:08   #13
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Re: Dual power 220/110

Well, I think you forgot the most important color- ORANGE.

An Orange Shore Power Cord implies you're Smart.

As in Smart Plug.

It's the only Shore Power I install. I absolutely refuse to use the the outdated shore power plugs yellow/white.

If my customer demands the outdated I happily invite them to find a new Marine Electrician.

Lloyd

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentOption View Post
Great reply! Thanks

All that's left now is to decide on white or yellow shore power cable...So many decisions to make. What does the color say about the person? The boat?
On my last boat we had one of each...I think that sends a message you go both ways of course the white cord was filthy dirty all time I hate it when people make assumptions.

I just hope someone has some good insight on cable color!

Well I know that will obviously be humor to only a few people here and at least one person isat this very moment, hammering out well thought out reply based on the formula for amps, volts, watts, current, psychology and phase of the moon!

Thanks to everyone who responded.
And...My wife is so happy to hear we wont be disassembling anything for the time being.



I am going back to drinking and contemplating life!

Cheers!
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Old 29-06-2014, 11:56   #14
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Re: Dual power 220/110

MD,

I sure hope you are not running in 110 loads with your current configuration. If so you have created a very unsafe environment for not only all on-board your boat, but all of your neighbors in the Marina.

Lloyd


Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
You bet Bud!

Let's address your last line first:

I am going back to drinking and contemplating life!

I think this is the best self advice I've heard...

I've got a wonky workaround that I'm doing for the time being... I hesitate to share as the electron heads like to pounce on bad ideas... BUT... They're all great guys, and wanna help...

I've got a standard 30A boat side to my cord/socket, and a 50A 120/240 male plugged into a 50A 120/240 service... Not all are dual voltage, so do some research... Anyway... There are two hot leads in this plus a neutral and ground... I've got the 2 hot and ground wired to the boat...
The 30A cord is plenty cause at 240, we're halving our current load...

The eventual plan is to have a 30A and 50A boat receptacles, have the 30A/120 wired to a panel distributing to a 120/240 buck/boost, AND a run of outlets, the 50A120/240 wired to both the 120 and 240 panels...

There's some elegant solution with isolation transformers forming in my head, but it really looks like a preschool drawing of a zebra... ***squinting*** or is that a turkey???

Most importantly... Our cable color choice... While white is right... er nice... They do tend to show their filthy side... I think it's just the company we keep...

Oh well...
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Old 29-06-2014, 13:54   #15
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Re: Dual power 220/110

Orange is a non-starter for me. My last wife was in the Coast Guard Just the sight of orange makes me cringe.
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