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Old 29-12-2014, 20:06   #1
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Double up output from Xantrex TrueCharge??

I'm in the midst of upgrading my house batteries from a single 12v group 29 to 4 6v batteries. The charge on board is a Xantrex 20A TrueCharge. With my new layout, I will only be charging the house batteries and will use an ACR to charge the reserve/starting battery. My question is can I combine 2 of the 3 output lines from the charger to double the charge available to the batteries?

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Jon
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Old 29-12-2014, 20:23   #2
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Re: Double up output from Xantrex TrueCharge??

that 20a charger is going to be too small for 4 golf carts and a start battery. a 50-60a would be more appropriate.



especially if you have and run a gen on board to charge batteries

I would run one lead to each battery. and not worry about the 3rd. it can provide all 20a to either battery.
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Old 29-12-2014, 20:33   #3
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Re: Double up output from Xantrex TrueCharge??

Agree it's too small. I have a 40amp with exactly the same setup. It works but could be bigger.

Disagree about running a leg to each because the op said he was going to use a ACR. Only run to the primary bank with that setup.


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Old 29-12-2014, 20:58   #4
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Re: Double up output from Xantrex TrueCharge??

I always run both charger leads. gives redundancy if one of the battery charger fuses blows, which should be on the cable near the battery. or if one output fails. then both still charge through acr through the good wire / fuse. or if the acr fuse blows or acr fails both still get charged. worth it for cost of a cable and a fuse.
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Old 29-12-2014, 22:11   #5
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Re: Double up output from Xantrex TrueCharge??

Smac,

The total output is 20 amps, it doesn't matter if you have 1 to 3 bats. Or if you have 1 bank connected to all three out puts, or 2 banks. Even if it is 1, or 2P, or 3P... it's only 20 amps. Now if a fault on 1, 2 or 3...all will be in fault according to the charger. So you will have no out put....period. Any way you think you can connect it...

They are not isolated.

They are not fault tolerant.

WOW.

Lloyd



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I always run both charger leads. gives redundancy if one of the battery charger fuses blows, which should be on the cable near the battery. or if one output fails. then both still charge through acr through the good wire / fuse. or if the acr fuse blows or acr fails both still get charged. worth it for cost of a cable and a fuse.
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Old 29-12-2014, 23:32   #6
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Re: Double up output from Xantrex TrueCharge??

fine. 3 of the 4 failures mentioned are still helped by having the 2nd wire.


I have seen chargers with one bad output. maybe the truecharge can't.
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Old 29-12-2014, 23:36   #7
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Re: Double up output from Xantrex TrueCharge??

They are not isolated.

They are not fault tolerant.

WOW.

Lloyd



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fine. 3 of the 4 failures are still helped by having the 2nd wire.


I have seen chargers with one bad output. maybe the truecharge can't.
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Old 29-12-2014, 23:55   #8
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Re: Double up output from Xantrex TrueCharge??

well there has to be isolation otherwise the banks would just drain into each other with charger off. probably a common bus fed into 3 diodes to batteries. so there is a failure point. but like I said. the 3 other faults are still fully possible. blown charger fuse at battery. blown acr fuse, or bad acr. in those 3 cases 2nd charger wire still charges both batteries. with one charger feed. none or only one bank gets charged.
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Old 30-12-2014, 00:01   #9
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Re: Double up output from Xantrex TrueCharge??

First fault, begets all other faults. So, on fault one, 2 and 3 never get the chance to fault.

Because there is no power/volt/amps in 2 or 3, because of fault one.

Lloyd

Don't believe me, create an arc fault on #1, and see if you can find power on 2 or 3.

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well there has to be isolation otherwise the banks would just drain into each other with charger off. probably a common bus fed into 3 diodes to batteries. so there is a failure point. but like I said. the 3 other faults are still fully possible. blown charger fuse at battery. blown acr fuse, or bad acr. in those 3 cases 2nd charger wire still charges both batteries. with one charger feed. none or only one bank gets charged.
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Old 30-12-2014, 00:13   #10
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Re: Double up output from Xantrex TrueCharge??

I'm talking about 4 different faults... not all 4 happening at once.. I have been called to boats with a dead start battery. acr fuse was blown. leaving no way to charge start battery. a 2nd charger lead would have prevented the dead battery. would still need to fix acr issue for full charging, but at least not left stranded and unable to start.


many people fuse and wire acr's way too small.
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Old 30-12-2014, 00:29   #11
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Re: Double up output from Xantrex TrueCharge??

Smac,

Think about this. Fault tolerant would mean each output is it's own power supply.

You cannot parallel a single out/bridged power supply, if they are in parallel. N1N, would be 3 separate power supplies, or three from one each isolated.

You will not find that in a 20 amp charger from Xantrex, nor from a 30, 40, or anything Xantrex Today.

Now yesterday, they made such a charger, but it was only in the market for less then 6 months, it was unsupported, when it failed.

Now Schneider, the Canadian parent company, may make a device sold into the Solar Market, but I am unaware of the same. There would be no reason.

Lloyd


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Originally Posted by smac999 View Post
I'm talking about 4 different faults... not all 4 happening at once.. I have been called to boats with a dead start battery. acr fuse was blown. leaving no way to charge start battery. a 2nd charger lead would have prevented the dead battery. would still need to fix acr issue for full charging, but at least not left stranded and unable to start.
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Old 30-12-2014, 00:35   #12
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Re: Double up output from Xantrex TrueCharge??

No, the internal fuse would have blown, so 2,3, 4 or how ever many leads would all be dead.

As there is only 1 ouput, otherwise it would have to be 1N, which would require a separate power circuit for each.

In a 20 amp charge that would never happen.

Lloyd

Quote:
Originally Posted by smac999 View Post
I'm talking about 4 different faults... not all 4 happening at once.. I have been called to boats with a dead start battery. acr fuse was blown. leaving no way to charge start battery. a 2nd charger lead would have prevented the dead battery. would still need to fix acr issue for full charging, but at least not left stranded and unable to start.


many people fuse and wire acr's way too small.
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Old 30-12-2014, 00:45   #13
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Re: Double up output from Xantrex TrueCharge??

guess I need a pic...

so fuse #3 is blown. no batteries get charged.

fuse #1, #2, or #4 is blown. only battery one gets charged.

acr fails. only battery one gets charged.


now add $10 of 10awg wire and another 30a fuse from output 2 to battery 2

fuse 3 blows. both batteries still getting charged through acr

fuse 1,2, or 4 is blown. both batteries still charged.

acr fails. both batteries still charged.

$10 well spent on redundancy.

the reason behind why they blew doesn't matter. could be any reason.


I have found boats like this with blown acr fuses and battery 2 not charging.
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Old 30-12-2014, 01:00   #14
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Re: Double up output from Xantrex TrueCharge??

Smac,

if power comes from on source.....ie; not N1 redundancy.

how will it continue?

Just to put it simple, you are 1 mile from your substation, and so is neighbor.

An arc-fault at your neighbors, blows out the substation, but doesn't blow your own CB....

Do you still have POWER???

Answer: No you don't because you rely on the substation, not your neighbors fuse.

N1 redundancy would mean you and your neighbor each had a seperate transformer at the substation.

Lloyd


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Originally Posted by smac999 View Post
guess I need a pic...

so fuse #3 is blown. no batteries get charged.

fuse #1, #2, or #4 is blown. only battery one gets charged.

acr fails. only battery one gets charged.


now add $10 of 10awg wire and another 30a fuse from output 2 to battery 2

fuse 3 blows. both batteries still getting charged through acr

fuse 1,2, or 4 is blown. both batteries still charged.

acr fails. both batteries still charged.

$10 well spent on redundancy.

the reason behind why they blew doesn't matter. could be any reason.


I have found boats like this with blown acr fuses and battery 2 not charging.
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Old 30-12-2014, 01:07   #15
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Re: Double up output from Xantrex TrueCharge??

why are you so fixated on a bad charger? charger is fine.


guy uses bow thruster and windlass at same time on water. blows acr fuse.


comes back to dock, plugs in. battery 1 charges battery 2 doesn't...
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