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Old 13-02-2013, 09:55   #16
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Re: DIY Lithium As A House Bank - 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
I would install the solar cutout relay. What activates this relay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
For LA yes for Li No. Dont float charge them, I would not let teh charger sit at a voltage for long periods connected to an idle battery. Lis have tiny self discharge.

I would also keep in the negative switch, its useful to totally isolate the batteries.
Dave
Frank,

I am assuming that you are using the BMS for "solar and off the grid solutions". That was the relay that you have labeled "cut out HV"

Dave,

The 123 BMS has a relay (R3) that shuts off the charger current at 100% and does not start a charge until there has been a discharge to 95% capacity. However if Frank is running the bilge pumps and security off the start battery while away from the boat then there should be little need to top off the batteries occasionally.

http://123electric.nl/uploads/file/B...anual_v1_0.pdf
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Old 13-02-2013, 10:01   #17
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Re: DIY Lithium As A House Bank - 1

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Originally Posted by LJH View Post
Frank,

I am assuming that you are using the BMS for "solar and off the grid solutions". That was the relay that you have labeled "cut out HV"

Dave,

The 123 BMS has a relay (R3) that shuts off the charger current at 100% and does not start a charge until there has been a discharge to 95% capacity. However if Frank is running the bilge pumps and security off the start battery while away from the boat then there should be little need to top off the batteries occasionally.

http://123electric.nl/uploads/file/B...anual_v1_0.pdf
Ok on the relay, cheers.
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Old 13-02-2013, 10:10   #18
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Re: DIY Lithium As A House Bank - 1

Might want to bone up on Boeing's 787 Lithium Battery fires before making this choice... it does happen in everything to cell phones etc....
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Old 13-02-2013, 10:17   #19
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Re: DIY Lithium As A House Bank - 1

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Might want to bone up on Boeing's 787 Lithium Battery fires before making this choice... it does happen in everything to cell phones etc....
They are not the same type of batteries, there's less risk with these than lead acids. Cheers for the heads up.
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Old 13-02-2013, 12:13   #20
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Re: DIY Lithium As A House Bank - 1

"HIQAP Series 12 Volt Battery system is designed to provide long life and high discharge rates when compared to industrial lead acid batteries. System consists of lithium iron phosphate batteries connected in series with nominal output of 13 volts DC, ideal for solar installations, wind and other energy storage applications.
Nominal Capacity :700 AH
Battery type: Lithium Iron Phosphate with Yttrium
Enclosure: Steel enclosure, painted black
Battery Management System: Individual cell balancing (temperature, voltage), CAN BUS output
Power Cables: 4/0 power cables, SB350 Connector standard
Operating Voltage:11.2V~16.0V
Weight:412 lbs +/-3 lbs
Dimensions:25.25"×11.75"×16.5"(LXWXH inches)
Operating Voltage : Charge 16.0 VDC
Operating Voltage : Discharge 11.2 VDC
Max Discharge Current : < 3CA
Cycle Life @ 80% DOD : 2500 Cycles
Operating Temperature : -45 - +85 deg C
Five Year Warranty"

Not understanding why the companies constantly state a high charge rate?
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Old 13-02-2013, 23:04   #21
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Re: DIY Lithium As A House Bank - 1

here's a relay box - could it be used as a ready made "switch box" for different BMS's?

Switchbox Solutions, standard - Lithium Balance
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Old 14-02-2013, 00:13   #22
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Re: DIY Lithium As A House Bank - 1

Cheers for that, i've got a couple of hours reading there!!!

Spot on
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Old 15-02-2013, 03:21   #23
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Re: DIY Lithium As A House Bank - 1

I asked the question of the supplier of the batteries:-

Hello Frank,


thank you for email.

Our cells and batteries are operating with following :

Cell - 3,65V balancing voltage, 3,95-4V first time charge

Battery - 14,6V balancing voltage, 16V first time charge

Balancing voltage may be 3,65-3,75V (14,6V - 15V).

I believe your MPPT is fine for the battery.


Best regards

Pavel Radomersky
Export department

i4wifi a.s.
Prumyslova 11/1472
102 00 Praha 10
Czech Republic
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Old 15-02-2013, 05:10   #24
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Re: DIY Lithium As A House Bank - 1

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Originally Posted by Singleprop View Post
here's a relay box - could it be used as a ready made "switch box" for different BMS's?

Switchbox Solutions, standard - Lithium Balance
You need to be careful of what is broken with these relays. Breaking the B+ output of an alternator for example can blow the diodes on most high output alternators.. You are much better off to break the B+ wire to the alternator regulator which in-turn cuts the field to the rotor. If using a Balmar regulator they prefer to see the HVC done on the B+ wire to the reg, not the blue field wire.

Some solar controllers can be broken on the output side and some on the input side. You need to know which is the safe method for the individual controller. Wind generators would need similar attention as to where and how to break it based on that device....

For our bank the only expensive relay will be the "load" cut. For this I will be using a Tyco EV-200. The alt B+ and solar controller will be cut using 70A Cole Herse continuous duty relays that are relatively inexpensive....
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Old 15-02-2013, 05:31   #25
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Re: DIY Lithium As A House Bank - 1

Isn't there a better way to do LVC? The Tyco contactor is NO and consumes a bit of power continuously (3-4 amps/day). Also if it were to fail, it would probably fail open. Would not a latching VSR like the Sterling Pro Latch be a better choice?
Just asking, trying to purchase 4 700 Ah cells from Balqon, but not having much luck getting return phone calls.
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Old 15-02-2013, 06:02   #26
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Re: DIY Lithium As A House Bank - 1

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Isn't there a better way to do LVC? The Tyco contactor is NO and consumes a bit of power continuously (3-4 amps/day). Also if it were to fail, it would probably fail open. Would not a latching VSR like the Sterling Pro Latch be a better choice?
Just asking, trying to purchase 4 700 Ah cells from Balqon, but not having much luck getting return phone calls.
Dwain
I wouldnt use latching, if that fails the relay will not disconnect, you could consider using a drive circuit that uses a much lower "hold" current after the initial pulse. several around


The other thing worth considering is repositioning the LVC to act as a remote disconnect battery isolator and say $$ on that switch. My boat has only remote disconnects. ( or use one of the many specific remote battery disconnect switches )
DAve
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Old 15-02-2013, 06:24   #27
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I'm not sure if a latching relay is less reliable for interrupting a current. They all have scary mechanical parts, and the risk is that the contacts get welded together. That would be the end for both types I think.
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Old 15-02-2013, 06:30   #28
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Re: DIY Lithium As A House Bank - 1

Frank, I am planning to do the same.

Only changes are Bilge pumps and any other "essential" services (alarms, etc) to be tapped directly off main battery (fused of course). Better a set of dead LFPs and the boat still afloat than the reverse.

Also, consider how you're going to shut down your big charger. I don't know who to believe but one source says that suddenly disconnecting the load from a charger in full tilt will cause it to self destruct.

If the above statement is incorrect, experts on the forum, feel free to correct me.

So perhaps another HVC relay at the AC supply side of the charger?
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Old 15-02-2013, 06:49   #29
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Re: DIY Lithium As A House Bank - 1

If you position the LVC as a disconnect also, wouldn't you eliminate your ability to continue charging in a LV situation? Plus isolating your bilge pumps/alarms?
Dwain


The other thing worth considering is repositioning the LVC to act as a remote disconnect battery isolator and say $$ on that switch. My boat has only remote disconnects. ( or use one of the many specific remote battery disconnect switches )
DAve[/QUOTE]
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Old 15-02-2013, 07:55   #30
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Re: DIY Lithium As A House Bank - 1

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If you position the LVC as a disconnect also, wouldn't you eliminate your ability to continue charging in a LV situation? Plus isolating your bilge pumps/alarms?
Dwain
Not with a "load bus" and a "charge bus".... My load bus contractor will only break the loads not the charge sources.
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