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clubhouse · 23-03-2010, 12:23

I am considering a RV Xantrex inverter/charger made for RVs. The appearance and performance look identical. There may be some differences in the coating applied to components but it was not clear. I will be mounting in on the inside of the boat which seems that same the inside of RV. Anyone have any ideas here.

sailvayu · 23-03-2010, 12:39

There is a big difference in many charges not sure about this model but if it is not approved for marine use do not use it. The marine models, mainly the isolation of the hi and low voltage circuits as well as the ground and neutral being separated. Using a non marine charger can cause galvanic or stray current corrosion as well as represent a shock hazard to those on board or in the water near your boat.

I have said it many times in this forum if the charger is not rated for marine use you are at risk and risking others. There are several cases of deaths related to using non marine chargers as well and many cases of corrosion problems.

So just because they look alike does not mean anything and there is more involved than the paint job.

Fair winds

trinescape · 23-03-2010, 12:41

I have a standard inverter on my tri ,its been 6 years with no problems i really cant see what the difference would be except as you pointed out with a protective coating over the circuit board to me buying a "marine grade " would be an invitation to charge extra $ for something that i think your R/v inverter/charger would do nicely ! but thats up to you good luck
andy

cdennyb · 23-03-2010, 12:46

I bought a cheap ($300) 5000 watt invert off ebay-brand new chinese knockoff and had absolutely zero issues with it. I properly installed the power leads, soldered connectors, spray coated the lugs and exposed metal and put it in a very dry and warm (as opposed to humid and hot) ventilated space. I grounded it and it worked perfectly from day one. I suppose you could say it wasn't "marine grade" but at that cost and the fact it was considered a "throw away" unit due to cost. I'm happy and it provided all the power I needed and then some.

colemj · 23-03-2010, 13:27

Most inverters that are designated specifically as marine models have transfer switches that connect the neutral to ground and are not installed to a permanent ground system.

If you are just using it only as a stand alone inverter and not passing shore power through it, a non-marine inverter will work just fine.

Mark

Sailmonkey · 23-03-2010, 13:28

1. non marine items can have the ground and neutral connected......bad on a boat
2. non marine items can have the ground and battery negative connected.....bad on
a boat.
3.Neither 1 or 2 are hard to spot and with careful checking you can save a
considerable amount of $$$

sailvayu · 23-03-2010, 13:46

The differences are more than just the ground neutrals being connected there is a difference in the isolation of the windings. This prevents problems if overheating occurs and prevent internal shorting leading to stray current problems. Just because some of you have gotten away with it does not mean it is a wise thing to do. I charge up to $150.00 per hour finding the cause of corrosion in boats and I for one would not use a non marine unit. Inverters as well need to be marine. I know I am on a soap box here but I speak from having investigated the cause of problems on boats. You might save a few bucks now but be buying a new prop later. Or worse the story that sticks in my mind is the 8 year old boy killed when swimming next to a boat with a non marine battery charger that failed. The op asked the difference now he knows

Fair winds

John A · 23-03-2010, 14:23

Thank you sailvayu, for your reply based on your professional experience

I had the installation of an inverter/charger, and battery upgrade, along with a high amp alternator and regulator installed by a professional. Sure it cost bucks, but the trouble/worry free proformance was well worth it.

John

GoneDiving · 10-01-2020, 15:20

Sorry to rehash old posts but would someone confirm if dedicated marine inverters are still required in single phase, three pin markets. I can understand the concern over bridged earth and neutral circuits where plugs and equipment have only two pins. However, in Australia we have single phase, active, neutral, and earth, across three pins. The earth and neutral are tested for isolitaion and kept as distinct circuits.

Also, how important are stray currents in non conductive 'glass or wooden boats?

Many thanks

billknny · 10-01-2020, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoneDiving

Sorry to rehash old posts but would someone confirm if dedicated marine inverters are still required in single phase, three pin markets. I can understand the concern over bridged earth and neutral circuits where plugs and equipment have only two pins. However, in Australia we have single phase, active, neutral, and earth, across three pins. The earth and neutral are tested for isolitaion and kept as distinct circuits.

Also, how important are stray currents in non conductive 'glass or wooden boats?

Many thanks

I am not aware of ANY place where a two pin wiring system is considered acceptable on boat. I certainly wouldn't go to sea on a boat wired like that.

The issue here is that the safety ground and the neutral need to be connected-- but ONLY at the source of the power and NOWHERE else. When we are connected to shore power this connection happens back near the marina transformer. The inverter needs to understand this and DISCONNECT the neutral and safety ground from each other when shore or generator power is used, but then connect them when the inverter is the source of power, while being sure that the inverter can never feed power into the system when shore power is also connected.

And YES stray current is very much an issue on non-metal hulled boats. If you don't know why, you shouldn't be wiring a boat until you learn even if you know a lot about wiring a house.

On most boats the AC safety ground is connected (somewhere) to the DC negative, so keeping all the electrons going where they should go and nowhere else is a nontrival job.

smac999 · 10-01-2020, 21:10

The rv one may not have the ground to neutral bond required by abyc. While inverting.

smac999 · 10-01-2020, 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoneDiving

Sorry to rehash old posts but would someone confirm if dedicated marine inverters are still required in single phase, three pin markets. I can understand the concern over bridged earth and neutral circuits where plugs and equipment have only two pins. However, in Australia we have single phase, active, neutral, and earth, across three pins. The earth and neutral are tested for isolitaion and kept as distinct circuits.

Also, how important are stray currents in non conductive 'glass or wooden boats?

Many thanks

North America. (120v 60hz). And the uk (230v 50hz). Both have the ground and neutral joined together. In houses or In boats. I have a hard time believing aus would be isolated.

GoneDiving · 11-01-2020, 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by billknny

The issue here is that the safety ground and the neutral need to be connected-- but ONLY at the source of the power and NOWHERE else. When we are connected to shore power this connection happens back near the marina transformer. The inverter needs to understand this and DISCONNECT the neutral and safety ground from each other when shore or generator power is used, but then connect them when the inverter is the source of power, while being sure that the inverter can never feed power into the system when shore power is also connected

Thanks for clarifying this.

Forgive my ignorance but why is where the connection happens important? If the ground and neutral lines are continuous wont a connection anywhere serve the same purpose? If anything wouldn't a connection at the vessel be better as it is closer to any fault/leakage? I guess the same question could be asked of why only having one connection is important?

Quote:

Originally Posted by billknny

And YES stray current is very much an issue on non-metal hulled boats. If you don't know why, you shouldn't be wiring a boat until you learn even if you know a lot about wiring a house.

Dont worry. My questions are for general interest and info only. I'm a keen DIYer but I know my limits. Electrocuting myself or others is not in my bucket list. Also, Australia is FAR more stringent on who can work on high voltage power systems. If an unlicensed DIYer tried to install anything and something went wrong, there would be very serious consequences.

Cheers.

GoneDiving · 11-01-2020, 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by smac999

North America. (120v 60hz). And the uk (230v 50hz). Both have the ground and neutral joined together. In houses or In boats. I have a hard time believing aus would be isolated.

So does Australia. I stand corrected

Thanks