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Old 27-05-2008, 10:05   #76
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Originally Posted by sailvi767 View Post
Fastcat, I always thought that having two gensets was the way to go in this type of application. You gain redundancy and it should dramatically cut fuel burn. If the Lagoon 420 had two gensets you could have had a 15 or 16KW and then a small 6KW. The 6 could be used at night for AC and house uses really cutting down the fuel consumption. It would also provide a backup to the main genset for propulsion.
George
Yes these 2 reasons are very important to me
first redundancy ( always a backup ) , gives my wife a good feeling
second very economical
most of the time when running the electrical motors we will only consume 10 to 13 KW since that gives us 7 + knots while with both gen sets running we can do in excess of 9 knots but how often is that ?
With the previous FastCat 435 with dual 4.5 Solomon motors we run max speed of 6.5 knots with only one 10 Kw genset running.

Greetings George
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Old 27-05-2008, 13:16   #77
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I remember reading the article. Do you have data so support the weight and savings conclusions?
That was my recollection of the articles findings. I don't have it on hand. Did you come to a different conclusion?
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Old 27-05-2008, 17:24   #78
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Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
most of the time when running the electrical motors we will only consume 10 to 13 KW
Greetings George
So that means you can run the motors about 30 minutes before the genset starts up?
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Old 28-05-2008, 00:38   #79
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Actually more like one hour at normal cruising speed or plenty to get out of or into a harbor without having the gen set start up. the nice thing is we have good light weather sailing boat so that is what we do most.
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Old 28-05-2008, 04:52   #80
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Gideon,

Great to hear your progress. I'm looking forward to seeing the boat in Miami in the fall. Keep pushing the envelope. We all benefit.
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Old 28-05-2008, 05:08   #81
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Gideon,

Great to hear your progress. I'm looking forward to seeing the boat in Miami in the fall. Keep pushing the envelope. We all benefit.
Hallo Abaco
we are trying to go as far as is presently possible with the technique available to day , All items used are purpose build for this type of propulsion in order to minimize the use of fossil fuels and maximize the total efficiency on Yachts

Props are placed on the front of the motors as a tractor system to increase efficiency. One og the motors will have a shroud and the other without to see the difference between the 2 and see if it financially interesting to install the Basalt fiber shroud ( expensive )

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Old 28-05-2008, 08:37   #82
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Actually more like one hour at normal cruising speed or plenty to get out of or into a harbor without having the gen set start up. the nice thing is we have good light weather sailing boat so that is what we do most.
Greetings
Gideon
What is the battery bank size? Seems you have about doubled it from the approximately 12KWH indicated on your website.
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Old 28-05-2008, 08:51   #83
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What is the battery bank size? Seems you have about doubled it from the approximately 12KWH indicated on your website.
If the Lithium Ion batterys are used we have
16000 watt usable on board for the motors so if we cruise at 50 % of power or 7 knots we could run well over 1 hour and 30 minutes before we are out of power and that is not taking into account any solar or wind generated power .
with the solar panels we can get as much as 1.5 KW per hour or 2.2 for 1.5 hours or an increase up to 18 Kw or close to 2 hours of run time .
This is at 50 % power or 7.2 knots Range 14 NM
with power setting of 30 % , still good for 6 knots of speed and a hourly consumption of 5.5 KW we can run well over 3 hours and in daylight even over 4 hours or a range on battery power of 24 NM
Now we are really getting somewhere with battery powered yachts.
Keep in mind that the FastCat 455 will already sail well with only 7 knots of wind so motors are not needed a lot.

Greetings
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Old 28-05-2008, 09:48   #84
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Lithium batteries still scare me to death on a boat. I know they are getting better but until there are a lot of boats out there with 5 years old lithiums its not a risk I am willing to take. One manufacturing flaw can lead to a fire 3 years later that can't be extinquished. The TSA recently came out with new rules on Lithium batteries on aircraft because of the potential for fire.
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Old 28-05-2008, 09:56   #85
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Lithium batteries still scare me to death on a boat. I know they are getting better but until there are a lot of boats out there with 5 years old lithiums its not a risk I am willing to take. One manufacturing flaw can lead to a fire 3 years later that can't be extinquished. The TSA recently came out with new rules on Lithium batteries on aircraft because of the potential for fire.
Hallo Sailvi

there is a big difference between one type of Lithium and another
We use the Lithium Ion Phosphate type that have no risk of thermal runaway since that is what you are reffering to
It happened on the Cat Playstation 8 years ago but those where the early types and not Phosphate
The type we use is made by Valence Technologies and these have no chance of thermal runaway not even if you short circuit them while a lead acid or AGM battery will catch a light these will not , they are approved for use in Aircraft and Airbus is already installing them
There are 3 producers that I know of that use this type.
The negative side is the high price .

Greetings

Valence Technology | Technology | Battery Safety | Safety Video
Valence Technology | Products | Epoch Power Systems | Overview
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Old 29-05-2008, 11:10   #86
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If the Lithium Ion batterys are used we have
16000 watt usable on board for the motors....
Greetings
You previously stated the genset starts at 40% charge and stops at 90% charge so I assume by usable you mean 50% of available. Therefore the bank is about 32KWHs. That would certainly be nice at anchor, with the solar panel, in the tropics the genset would seldom be needed. However, what is the weight, space required, and cost of that battery bank?
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Old 29-05-2008, 11:46   #87
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Originally Posted by gosstyla View Post
You previously stated the genset starts at 40% charge and stops at 90% charge so I assume by usable you mean 50% of available. Therefore the bank is about 32KWHs. That would certainly be nice at anchor, with the solar panel, in the tropics the genset would seldom be needed. However, what is the weight, space required, and cost of that battery bank?
With a normal lead acid or AGM battery we can go down to 50 % of state of charge without shortening the life. With Lithium Ion it is a diffrent story
The 16 Kw is actually usable so we can set the generator to 5 % of charge without damaging the battery set.
The weight for this set of 11 units in order to create the 16000 Kw and 144 volts is 202 kilo or 446 lbs . the space needed is the same as 11 normal sized 60 ah car batteries and the cost is a diffrent story
USD 1850 each or 21000 usd for the set with 10 years of life in them

Greetings Gideon
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:17   #88
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have ordered dazcat voyager catamaran ( built in China) and have bought 2 aziprop electric motors to fit so hope to have diesel electric working cat oct 2008 in uk.
I am convinced diesel electric is better with lack of noise when motor sailing and in canals and less fuel
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:55   #89
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Hallo Graham , Good decision you will have a great boat
Congratulations

Gideon
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Old 10-06-2008, 08:46   #90
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Hallo everybody,
does anyone know what happens to a diesel electric system with or without batteries when the boat is stucked by a lightning?
Martin
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