Costco vs Trojan Batteries

[rebel heart]

my local golf cart store is selling the t105's for 120 (+24 core)

[rebel heart]

Can someone help me with the numbers here? I've got a recommendation of a 460 amp hour battery bank. T105's say it has 185AH @ 5 hours, and 225AH @ 20 hours.

But that's at six volts, right?

So for 12 volts and 460AH, I'd need 6 T105's, giving me about 300AH at 12 volts?

----

A little calculator told me to use the @20 hours number, and it says 4 batteries would give me 450AH.

[DeepFrz]

Yes, that's right. Was there a question there someplace? lol

The calculator is correct.

The 20 hr. rate is the rate we use for house batteries.

Notice that the larger the draw the fewer amp. hrs. available so it is best to size the bank using the 20 hr. rate. What I'm trying to say is the average draw should not exceed the 20 hr. rate so as to give you reasonable power.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by svcattales

I found a Golf Cart dealer in Sun City Center, Fl that will sell me T-105's for $97.50 ea with trade in core. For an extra 20 bucks each over Sam's Club, I'm going to get the Trojans. The dealer: West Coast Golf Carts (813) 634-6671.

I certainly would... My price up here is over $140.00..

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

A little calculator told me to use the @20 hours number, and it says 4 batteries would give me 450AH.

In series combine volts Ah stay the same, in parallel combine Ah's volts stay the same.

Two T-105 6V batts in series is 225Ah @ 12V add another bank of two in series and combine that with the other one in parallel and you now have 450 Ah's @ 12V.

[amytom]

Originally Posted by onestepcsy37

where did you get t-105's for $90 each???? i also live in central florida and would drive a reasonable distance to get them, especially since sam's club equivalents are about $78.

Royal Battery in Kissimmee. They also have locations in Daytona and Palm Bay. Don't mention my name though; not sure if that's the price for everyone or not.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Maine Sail

In series combine volts Ah stay the same, in parallel combine Ah's volts stay the same.

Two T-105 6V batts in series is 225Ah @ 12V add another bank of two in series and combine that with the other one in parallel and you now have 450 Ah's @ 12V.

Move EITHER the negative or positive buss cable to the right battery. This keeps both battery sets the same distance from the load.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by onestepcsy37

where did you get t-105's for $90 each???? i also live in central florida and would drive a reasonable distance to get them, especially since sam's club equivalents are about $78.

Affordable Golf Carts - Home

I bought T-105's for $86 plus core early this year.

[rodney_k]

I just replaced my old US Battery house bank consisting of eight 6V US145 with new US145XC batteries. The old bank lasted 8 years. I paid $131 for each delivered to the dock and the cores picked up at delivery. The 20 hour rating for the US145XCs is 251AH giving me a 12V house bank of 1008AH.

(Thread drift) I also installed the Flo-Rite watering system. I can water all 8 batteries from a single quick connect using a hand pump. The Flo-Rite system replaces the battery caps with a new cap with a float valve and a manifold connects the caps together. The manifolds are then plumbed together and terminated with a quick connect. To fill the batteries, one connects a hand pump (bulb much like an outboard priming bulb) to the quick connect, and simply pump until the bulb is firm. The float valves shut the water flow off to each cell when the proper level is reached. The Flo-Rite system was less than $200 for 8 batteries/24 cells.

[kiltym]

This is a bit of thread drift, but since there are so many people watching this thread with good info, I thought I would be ok. If not, yell at me and I will start another one...

US Battery is a pretty reputable company for 6V Golf Cart batteries. I use them, as do many others. Mine are 3 years old, and starting to lose their capacity. When I first bought them, I wrote US battery and asked what the charging levels should be. This is what I received, and is still what they state on their web site:

"US Battery's bulk charging voltage recommendation for a 12 volt battery is 15.5 volts (2.583 vpc x 6) with a maximum charge current of 20-25 amps per parallel leg (60-75 amps for 3 sets in parallel). Your charge voltage settings of 14.4 &14.65 volts will tend to undercharge the batteries if they are deeply discharged on a regular basis."

Now, we are in the Caribbean, often with higher temps, so here is their temp modification from their site:

"Reduce voltage by .028 per cell for every 10F over 80F".

So, assuming our temp is about 90F, the voltage on a regular basis they want me to charge the batteries to is 15.3.

Wow, that seems crazy to me. I dont even think Xantrex charges will do this except in Equalize Mode.... I guess I was hoping to get more like 5 years of full time cruising from these, but doesn't look like it. We liveaboard full time, on the hook, never discharge > 50%, and also rarely bring them to total full charge as it has to be done with our engine.

What are people's thoughts/comments on this....

Thanks

[Joli]

We generally buy Sam's Club golf cart battery which are made by Deka.

EAST PENN manufacturing co., inc.: Lead-Acid Batteries; Battery Manufacturers; Thousands of Different Types of Batteries, Cable & Wire Product

But really any major golf cart battery maker is going to be a good bet.

Battery makers: Car and Deep Cycle Battery FAQ, Battery Manufacturers and Brand Names List, and

[hellosailor]

Maine Sail-
The proprietary attittude at Trojan may just be paranoia, but it isn't uncommon at many companies. I called Garmin one day to ask about how they were calculating something (I forget what) because the numbers a GPS shows can vary depending on what shortcuts it is taking, i.e. the time period used in averaging will affect speed readings. (Some cell phone GPSes show substantial movement +5 seconds after the car they are in has stopped.)
Garmin got REAL paranoid, they couldn't believe there were users who really just wanted to know how the numbers were being derived, in order to understand them better.
Then there's the mattress industry, if you want to mention an entire industry that depends on smoke and mirrors to differentiate products. Give 'em a chance, and the local mattress store will try to upsell you into a mattress that's now over 14" thick, at $1000 for a queen set. Want a 6-8" thick mattress? Sorry, they don't make those anymore. Can't understand how people ever managed to sleep on them.

Folks need to bear in mind that when a battery maker sells a battery under their own brand name (JCI's Optima line, or Odyssey, etc.) it tends to stay the same year after year until it gets "improved". But EVERY contracted battery (Sears, WalMart, Costco, Honda and other auto warranty replacements, etc.) is subject to change EVERY year, as those contracts are renegotiated. If the Costco buyer tells someone at JCI "I need a battery I can sell for ten bucks less than Sears" that's what they'll get. Maybe the plates are each 1/16" shorter and the casing size stays the same. Or someone uses a thicker, cheaper, heavier casing material. But that's all up for changes, every year.
Back in the 80's Consumer Reports did one of their regular auto battery reviews and one of the "Interstate" batteries got rave reviews. The next year, CR had to note that one of the relabels of it was no longer the same battery, no longer the same quality. So yes, we do pay for brand names. And sometimes, if you're lucky, you get what you pay for. Sometimes, more or less.

IIRC the three largest battery makers in the US (JCI, Deka, and ?) account for something like 85% of the entire market. So there aren't just three makers--but effectively? It isn't a very big lie to say there are just three, the rest are supposed to be radically smaller market shares.

And then of course there's China...how it can be cost effective to ship some of the densest materials in the world halfway around it and still make a profit selling the goods...I have to think that someone is cheating, somewhere in that equation.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

... So yes, we do pay for brand names. And sometimes, if you're lucky, you get what you pay for. Sometimes, more or less ...

Indeed - Sometimes you get what you pay for; but you NEVER get what you haven't paid for.

[hellosailor]

"but you NEVER get what you haven't paid for. "
Yes, sometimes you DO.

Case in point, when I bought my car I got a "free" major appliance from Sears. At that time it was a still uncommon $600 Sears Microwave oven, could have been a washer/dryer/fridge just as easily, all about the same price. I didn't know there was a bonus offer happening--and if the salesman hadn't asked which one I wanted, I'd have never known, or expected it.

Every once in a while something much smaller but just as unexpected comes along. Sometimes a brand name something or other breaks, and the maker will say "Don't worry about that, we'll replace it with this newer-bigger-faster-better model, no charge." Surely, that's happened to you?

Or, you buy something disappointing from a food company, call to let them know, and they send you 3x-5x more in coupons than whatever it was cost?

I called Phillips last month because a "seven year guaranteed CF bulb went out after 1 year. The rep said don't worry, we'll be sending you some coupons for a new one--and the coupon is for $20 worth of anything they make. WAY MORE than the cost of that one $3-4 bulb.

Sometimes, yes, folks really do step up to make sure the customer puts them on the right short list.<G>

As the folks at LLBean said in a magazine interview some years ago, they know the cost of acquiring one new customer can be $1000 or more, in terms of money spent on ads over the years. Once they have a customer, they may keep them for 50 years at a profit of (mumble mumble) per year.

So spending, or eating, a coupe of bucks along the way to KEEP that customer, instead of losing all those years of profits and spending another thousand to replace them? Is just good economics!

The reason America's economy is in trouble, is mainly that Ameicans both in and out of business just don't have any grasp on the real long-term economics of it. Much less the short term.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

... Sometimes, yes, folks really do step up to make sure the customer puts them on the right short list.<G>

As the folks at LLBean said in a magazine interview some years ago, they know the cost of acquiring one new customer can be $1000 or more, in terms of money spent on ads over the years. Once they have a customer, they may keep them for 50 years at a profit of (mumble mumble) per year...

You’re right. Customer retention and satisfaction drive profits. It's far less expensive to cultivate your existing customer base and sell more services to them, than it is to seek new, single-transaction customers. Most surveys across industries show that keeping one existing customer is five to seven times more profitable than attracting one new one.