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Old 13-09-2010, 21:29   #61
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Had a long drive today so made a bunch of phone calls to get more information cause this thread peaked my interest. I called Superior Battery, US Battery, Crown Battery, JCI, East Penn and Trojan. All US manufacturers.

Could not get anyone at Johnson Controls (JCI) or Deka/East Penn.

All this was prompted by the multiple references here to plate thickness. Seems everyone hints or assumes that Trojan is the thickest but in all my years on these forums I have yet to see anywhere the actual plate thickness of a T105 or T125.

So I call US Battery, Crown, East Penn, Johnson Controls (JCI) and Superior. Crown, US and Superior were all extremely helpful and supportive in my research. These guys were all very into their product and excited to discuss their products and technology. Some even shared market share data by industry sector.

US Battery US2200 - 232 Ah, +Plate Thickness .110

Crown CR225 - 225 Ah, +Plate Thickness .105

Superior GC1200 - 220 Ah, +Plate .115

Trojan T105 - WE DON'T DISCLOSE THAT DATA


What, the "leader" in robust deep cycle batteries won't discuss plate thickness??? That's okay because both Crown and US Battery claim the plates are "around" .110, just as the others are, as they have both done battery autopsies on the Trojan's.

Apparently within the industry US Battery is very well respected. Both Superior and Crown eluded to this and their rather decent share of the golf car industry, which Trojan apparently has given up a lot of to US Batt. Trojan said, in reference to US Battery, "they basically copied our battery".

I was thoroughly impressed with Crown, US Battery and Superior. Trojan was surprisingly quite underwhelming. I called an 800 number then was asked to leave a message and they would call me back. I called back and was asked to be placed on hold, I did not use their 800 number, but was told "I am in California and tech support is in Georgia, there is no hold option".

The woman I spoke with, who finally called me back, was cordial but considerably less knowledgeable than the folks I spoke with at Crown, Superior and US Battery.

Trojan builds a good battery but I don't understand the "top secret" approach to plate thickness when you are supposedly the industry leader. The other three were all very excited to discuss technology, paste, separators, antimony content etc. etc. etc.... Trojan, not so much..
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Old 13-09-2010, 21:56   #62
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Interesting because Rolls/Surrette publish all of that information on their web site.

One thing about Rolls/Surrette is that their "Off Grid"(I can't remember the exact name they use) battery is the same weight, size and spec. as the "Marine" battery but at a much lower price. The only thing is they wont honor the warranty if the battery is installed on a boat.
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Old 13-09-2010, 22:33   #63
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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
Interesting because Rolls/Surrette publish all of that information on their web site.

One thing about Rolls/Surrette is that their "Off Grid"(I can't remember the exact name they use) battery is the same weight, size and spec. as the "Marine" battery but at a much lower price. The only thing is they wont honor the warranty if the battery is installed on a boat.
Need to know basis...
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Old 13-09-2010, 22:55   #64
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Standard argument on agm vs. flooded. If you live in a hermetically sealed lab and can control all variables, AGMs are the way to go. If you're on a boat, on the other hand....
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Old 14-09-2010, 06:11   #65
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Standard argument on agm vs. flooded. If you live in a hermetically sealed lab and can control all variables, AGMs are the way to go. If you're on a boat, on the other hand....
My personal experience with AGM has shown that sentiment to be true, shorter life, considerably more money and rarely the ability to take advantage of the high acceptance rates with small diesel aux alternators.

I prefer not to spend more of my hard earned money to get arguably less cycle life when I don't really have to. IME I have not seen the original claims of more cycle life hold up compared to deep cycle wets. Now some manufacturers are altering their stance on cycle life.

If I needed to lay a battery on its side then that is a clear benefit but for the price premium I would think on most any boat I could build myself a beautiful battery epoxy/marine ply/gelcoat battery shelf/compartment for a lot less money. Have done that three times.

They certainly do have some advantages but long life and price are not two of them that I have seen be true. Just my own .02 worth of AGM experience.

I find this quote from Trojan Battery quite interesting considering they too sell AGM batts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Battery
Generally, gel and AGM batteries have about 20% less capacity, cost about two times more, and have a shorter cycle life than comparable flooded lead acid batteries. However, Gel and AGM batteries do not need watering, are safer (no acid spilling out), can be placed in a variety of positions, have a slower self-discharge characteristic, and are more efficient in charging and discharging than flooded batteries (see table below). Gel batteries are more suitable for deep cycling applications whereas AGM batteries are more for light cycling and engine-starting applications.
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Old 14-09-2010, 07:28   #66
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Picked up four T105's for $90.00 each last week. Now to choose a replacement for my trucharge 20+. Maybe the Iota 55?

Thoughts?
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Old 14-09-2010, 08:42   #67
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I have 6 T-605 trojen batt. for my house batt. and the cost was about $545 for all 6. they cost less then the T-105 and you only give-up 5AH per batt. My last set of trojen's came with the boat but still lasted 5 years. I have seen other boaters put in the cheper batt. and they only last about two years like the others have been saying, I feel you get what you pay for but I'm not you and I don't know how you use your boat or your power need's.
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Old 14-09-2010, 13:43   #68
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I have 6 T-605 trojen batt... ... they cost less then the T-105 and you only give-up 5AH per batt...
Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Jay.

The Trojan T-605 is actually rated 15 A/H less than the T-605 (& 4 Lbs lighter).
Trojan Battery Company
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Old 14-09-2010, 15:44   #69
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Just to be sure I understand; are we talking about a price difference of $20-30/each here? Or roughly about $200 for a bank of baterries we plan to get 5+ years of life out of. That's like 1/10th of a beer each day, way too expensive for me.
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Old 15-09-2010, 05:42   #70
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The T-605 is 15 A/H less and 4 lbs. lighter than the T-105
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Old 15-09-2010, 09:12   #71
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The T-605 is 15 A/H less and 4 lbs. lighter than the T-105
Indeed, & thanx for the correction.
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Old 15-09-2010, 13:04   #72
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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
One thing about Rolls/Surrette is that their "Off Grid"(I can't remember the exact name they use) battery is the same weight, size and spec. as the "Marine" battery but at a much lower price. The only thing is they wont honor the warranty if the battery is installed on a boat.
Thanks for that information. I'll be replacing my Rolls next summer, so you just saved me some money.
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Old 15-09-2010, 14:08   #73
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where did you get t-105's for $90 each???? i also live in central florida and would drive a reasonable distance to get them, especially since sam's club equivalents are about $78.
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Old 15-09-2010, 14:25   #74
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where did you get t-105's for $90 each???? i also live in central florida and would drive a reasonable distance to get them, especially since sam's club equivalents are about $78.
My local battery wholesaler pays more than that for them. I have seen the invoice. Perhaps old stock or stolen.. I too would love to know that source as I could ship them here and still beat my local wholesale price by about $20.00.. Must be a HUGE volume distributor!!
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Old 15-09-2010, 15:01   #75
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where did you get t-105's for $90 each???? i also live in central florida and would drive a reasonable distance to get them, especially since sam's club equivalents are about $78.
I found a Golf Cart dealer in Sun City Center, Fl that will sell me T-105's for $97.50 ea with trade in core. For an extra 20 bucks each over Sam's Club, I'm going to get the Trojans. The dealer: West Coast Golf Carts (813) 634-6671.
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