Connecting LED dome lights small wires to big wires...

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

This is the first I'd heard of "step down" butt connectors, thanks!

We've all heard that soldered connections aren't appropriate for a boat, although I think on these smaller wires, if sealed and supported, it shouldn't be a problem.

That said, I also stumbled across "solder seal" heat shrink butt connectors. Another one I hadn't heard of before. Looks like a good solution in some cases. Getting the temp just right to melt the solder without burning the insulation seems like it might be tricky. And at $1.50 and up for each connector, practicing could get expensive.

The step downs were new to me as well. Ordered a 15 pack to put in the electrical box.

The solder seal connectors I heard about from a friend almost 40 years ago and still have a few in the kit. Have used them a few times in special cases but usually stick with standard crimps. The solder ones I don't think are as secure as a crimp since the only thing holding the wires together is a twist, the solder and the tube. The solder is very low temp melt so not too tricky to use.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by kish

You are misunderstanding the basics of fusing.
The wire run in a circuit from a fuse panel to supply devices must be protected by a fuse appropriate to the current rating of the supply wire itself. This protects the wire only.
Most devices (unless there is a single device only in the circuit) are connected by a tee off from the supplying wires (+12 volt and earth) and will usually use only a fraction of the amp rating of the supplying circuit backbone wire. To fuse the supply wire for the smallest wire in the supply wire run will reduce the current carrying capacity of that wire.
The teed off device from a fused circuit can have an inline sub fuse fuse appropriate to its' wire size, which protects the device's wiring but does not down rate the backbone wire supplying the device.

It is you who is misinterpreting the use of overcurrent protection. This circuit needs to be protected for the smallest conductor in the circuit. That would be #22. Installing a 5 amp fuse and holder behind each fixture would be overcomplicated. It is not incorrect to use smaller overcurrent protection than necessary.

[john61ct]

insulated+adhesive heat-shrink asymmetric butt connectors, smaller wire doubled over if too small

crimp only, gas tight verified by pull test

extra length of long wire left in place at fixture end for future use

home runs to panel, CP sized for smallest wire gauge (or 20% above fixture draw if that's smaller)

panels can be small+local or centralized as you prefer

[HopCar]

When joining wires of different sizes or where the connection will need to be broken at some point, I like to put ring terminals on the wires and join them with a terminal strip. I always use a terminal strip to connect bilge pumps because you know your going to have to replace it some time.
https://www.bluesea.com/products/240...0A_-_2_Circuit

[sstuller]

Why not use replacement LED bulbs in the original fixtures? There are LED's for just about every standard bulb out there.Thanks.

[Rowglide]

WOW this has been fun, definitely stirred up a hornet's nest of opinions.
Can't just swap out bulbs as the old (original 1979) fixtures were very tarnished. and corroded in the bulb sockets.
I like the step down connectors. Funny, Marine Outfitters, the seller that has them listed,has their storefront 3 miles down the road from me. They rarely have things in stock but are pretty fast at getting it in. I also like the option of using bullet connectors, I'll have to look into that method also.
I do have a half a dozen 5A breakers in my spares box so swapping that out will be a snap.

Thanks for all the opinions
Jim

[BlackHeron]

Originally Posted by sstuller

Why not use replacement LED bulbs in the original fixtures? There are LED's for just about every standard bulb out there.Thanks.

Or just replace the whole fixture with a nice one that has the LEDs built-in and spread around inside the flat surface. The LED upgrade bulbs are nice but often waste light output unless you can get the bulbs in there just right.

I really love our Dr LED White/Red dome lights. Pricey, but should last basically the life of the boat. It is great having red light for when underway at night to preserve night vision.

They also have conversion kits for older dome lights that spread the LEDs out in a flat disc which is better than trying to shove them all into a small bulb format the same size as the old incandescent bulb.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/dr-le...69?recordNum=5

[sailorboy1]

I recommend that a bunch of you go down to the local west marine etc. and stand in front of the electrical connector display and take note of what is available. Maybe then the next time this happens you will go I saw those connectors right there on the display rack.

Trust me there is a connector designed to do all the things you will come across because at one time or another someone said "if only someone made ....."

[john61ct]

After you see what you need, buy elsewhere

[BlackHeron]

Originally Posted by john61ct

After you see what you need, buy elsewhere

This is a little off-topic but I don't really understand why everyone hates on WestMarine so much. Sure they can be expensive with their retail pricing scheme but when you talk to the guy behind the counter he's most likely going to be a very knowledgeable sailor himself* who knows the product line intimately -unlike the guy at the big-box hardware store who doesn't have a clue about the parts on his shelf beyond the SKU #.

Every time I go into my local WM store I get greeted by name by every employee there and whenever I need something strange they bend over backwards trying to find things for me. Special orders come from the warehouse in a few days on the next truck.

One of their super-guru wizards once was able to find on his computer one of the only Vetus RULAGER30 cutlass bearing in existence in North America at the time and make a special purchase order for it from the Vetus warehouse through WM and had it in my hands less than a week after I asked for it -and for such a cheap price that I ended up having him order a second one for me a month later to keep as a spare on the boat for the next time I need it as I'll probably be in the middle of nowhere when that time comes. This wasn't an item that WM normally stocks or even has listed in their catalog. It's a really weird size (30mm shaft/ID and 1-3/4" OD so is a metric/SAE hybrid bearing.)

Maybe the Chicago store is extra awesome but every WM I've been to in North America was staffed by highly knowledgeable and friendly folks who steered me straight -and I don't think I'm any slouch when it comes to boat knowledge. Every time I had a question they were happy to talk to me in depth about it and give great advice with options I hadn't even thought of. The added value I have received from this service has been invaluable IMHO. I'd hate to see the company disappear because people quit shopping there and not have this resource any longer.

The prices can be high sure, but if you have a Pro account they are not bad at all. It's worth applying for, and getting one, if you have a business and can qualify. If I didn't have access to a PortSupply/Pro account I think I'd apply for a part time job working at WestMarine just to get the employee discount I think I would fit right in there and have a blast working with those guys. If I wasn't planning on cutting the lines and leaving on our boat forever this spring I'd do just that.

Sure there are cheaper places online, but the stellar service and the convenience of having a fully-stocked marine store that is a 10 minute drive from my boat (and they will deliver for free right to the yard if you like) is invaluable. I could order online from Defender and get about the same prices after shipping and wait forever and not be able to return things easily. WestMarine takes returns no questions asked I have found, so if I even think I might need an item I just buy it when I'm in the store and return it weeks or even months later if turns out later I didn't really need it. I don't even need a receipt as they can look it up on the computer. Just go and try that with items bought online...



*Edited to add: Or herself as WM employs some really great female captains/sailors too who are every bit as knowledgeable and experienced as their male employees.

[steve77]

Originally Posted by rwidman

If you use anything like these connectors, remember that there will still be 12 volts on one of the connectors. This must not be the male connector (with exposed metal). Remember this.

Ron,

I do not use the bullet style connectors with the male exposed metal. But, suppose I did? It is 12 Volts DC. If I was concerned about anything in the overhead being grounded and having a possible arcing problem, then a piece of electrical tape will solve the issue.

Remember, this would be a very temporary situation when I have removed part of the headliner to access something. I don't believe any dire warnings are merited.

Steve

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by steve77

Ron,

I do not use the bullet style connectors with the male exposed metal. But, suppose I did? It is 12 Volts DC. If I was concerned about anything in the overhead being grounded and having a possible arcing problem, then a piece of electrical tape will solve the issue.

Remember, this would be a very temporary situation when I have removed part of the headliner to access something. I don't believe any dire warnings are merited.

Steve

Best practice (even just good practice) tells us not to leave hot conductors exposed. Why would anyone want to do it the wrong way, especially when it's no more difficult or expensive to do it the right way?

This is not a "dire warning", it is common sense to anyone doing electrical work. If it s not, they shouldn't be doing electrical work, no matter what the voltage.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by john61ct

After you see what you need, buy elsewhere

Would you like people treating your business that way? Does that seem honest to you?

If you don't want to shop at West Marine and support what for many is the only brick and mortar marine store in their area, that's your choice but don't go in their, take up an employee's time and then walk out and buy from some "no service" internet vendor. That's dishonest.

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by TreblePlink

This may be heresy, but my preference for connections that are unlikely to be undone anytime soon is soldering and insulating with shrink tubing. In my experience this is more reliable in the long term.

Sea air corrosion, brittle and inappropriate for enclosed spaces. A good crimp tool and good connectors will make a more consistent connection.

I also use heat shrink to build up the thinner wire. Then heat shrink the lot. I also use Deutsch connectors and blade connectors. Makes inspection and replacement easy.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

None of the solutions mentioned is correct for this application.

Dome lights fail and get repaired or replaced. The inaccessible wiring that is buried in the headliner must be preserved. So it is wise to connect dome lights using insulated, unplug-able crimp connectors such as Fast-Ons, etc, or by installing a mini terminal strip. This allows for the removal and replacement of the lights without shortening the ship's wiring each time a repair or replacement is required. Male and female portions of the connectors are alternately installed such that positive and ground cannot be misconnected.

It is possible to combine the male and female portions of these connectors so that different wire sizes can be accommodated.

That's the way I would do it.

Crimping is the best way to make wire connections, but it needs to be done right, with a good tool, used correctly, and good connectors. Doing it right is not cheap -- my crimper cost $250, and the connectors are up to a few dollars each (I use Molex Permaseal).

It's not good practice to use a connector made for a larger wire gauge. You can double it back and forth, but that's a bodge -- if the doubled strands are caught better than the strands right at the joint, then it can all pull out.

So just use a bullet or spade connector the right size for the wire, with the corresponding connector the right size for its own wire. You get the ability to pull the wires apart as a bonus.

If you want to make the connection completely waterproof, then use self-amalgamating tape over the joined connectors.