Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-05-2013, 09:26   #16
Moderator
 
Paul Elliott's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,888
Images: 4
Re: Confused about navigation lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Good separate bright deck level lights are better then a weak little thingy at the top of the mast.
And I say a bright tricolor at the top of the mast is better than weak little deck-level lights. This is more often the case on sailboats, at least in my experience.

But comparing small and weak with big and bright shouldn't be the issue. Let's assume that the appropriate 1 NM or 2NM lights are in use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
secondly in harbour approaches or where there are other boats often power boats , people dont look up.
This I completely agree with.
__________________

__________________
Paul Elliott, S/V VALIS - Pacific Seacraft 44 #16 - Friday Harbor, WA
www.sailvalis.com
Paul Elliott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 09:52   #17
Registered User
 
silviris's Avatar

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Boat: Aspiring Searunner Owner
Posts: 73
Re: Confused about navigation lights

Ok, lot's of helpful info and I guess I'll just go with deck mounted lights. A little more work, but I don't want my fun time interrupted by the Coasties.

Thanks!
__________________

__________________
silviris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 09:55   #18
Registered User
 
silviris's Avatar

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Boat: Aspiring Searunner Owner
Posts: 73
Re: Confused about navigation lights

Any thoughts on red/green vs separate sidelights on trimarans? I would think that the combo light would be obscured by the float in heavier weather, even if I mount them on the bow railing. Is it better to install separate lights on each of the floats, or has experience shown that this doesn't really matter?
__________________
silviris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 10:04   #19
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: Confused about navigation lights

Separate lights require twice as much power, twice as much wiring, and twice as many bulbs to replace, but they will be better in terms of visibility and not reducing night vision.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 10:25   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Abaco, Bahamas/ Western NC
Boat: Nothing large at the moment
Posts: 820
Re: Confused about navigation lights

I am not going to jump into the location discussion, the COLREGS are clear on that. However as a big boat operator for many years sailboats are damn hard to see and do not offer a good radar return. AIS is the best thing you can have!! That said you need large bright lights! Saving amperage is not a lot of good if you get run down. A spot lite on your sails when you a ship shows up better than any navigation lights. Ships do not care which heading you are on, you are to slow for it to matter!
__________________
Tingum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 11:13   #21
Registered User
 
OldFrog75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Boat: Club Sailor; various
Posts: 922
Re: Confused about navigation lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
Our family's little 23 foot Jeanneau has this arrangement too. Saved us having to install a steaming light.

This sounds like you are using an anchor light (360 degrees) as a combined steaming light (225 degrees) and a stern light (135 degrees) when under power. Is that correct?
__________________
OldFrog75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 11:26   #22
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,376
Re: Confused about navigation lights

The simplest may be a combination light red/green mounted on the front of the pulpit ( if you have one!) and a white stern light. Then you need a steaming light part way up the mast. This can double as an anchor light (and does on many small craft from the factory) but you should have a better anchor light that you hang from the boom illuminating the cockpit etc for "real" safety.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 11:27   #23
Registered User
 
OldFrog75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Boat: Club Sailor; various
Posts: 922
Re: Confused about navigation lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talbot View Post
My Privilege 37 is less than 12m. It has a light system that switches on the anchor light as a combined steaming and stern light when the navigation lights are selected - the nav lights being a combined port/stbd half way up the mast. Thus meeting the requirements of Rule 23 and Annex I.
Never would have occurred to me to use an anchor light as a combined steaming and stern light. I would have been too myopic, as in
"stern light must be as close to stern as possible" to even consider this a viable and legal possiblility but I guess it works huh?
__________________
OldFrog75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 11:49   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,949
Re: Confused about navigation lights

Quote:
Never would have occurred to me to use an anchor light as a combined steaming and stern light. I would have been too myopic, as in
"stern light must be as close to stern as possible" to even consider this a viable and legal possiblility but I guess it works huh?
Yes, it is legal if you are under 12 meters in length, and it gets that bright white light away from your deck, cockpit, and wake, helping to preserve some of your night vision. This page has a pretty good set of illustrations of nav. lights.

Quote:
(c | d) (i) A power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and sidelights.

[(ii) a power-driven vessel of less than 7 meters in length whose maximum speed does not exceed 7 knots may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and shall, if practicable, also exhibit sidelights.]
[(iii) the masthead light or all-round white light on a power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may be displaced from the fore and aft centerline of the vessel if centerline fitting is not practicable, provided the sidelights are combined in one lantern which shall be carried on the fore and aft centerline of the vessel or located as nearly as practicable in the same fore and aft line as the masthead light or the all-round white light.]
__________________
Kettlewell Cruising
Kettlewell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 15:17   #25
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tasmania
Boat: VandeStadt IOR 40' - Insatiable
Posts: 2,317
Images: 91
Re: Confused about navigation lights

These days, as LED technology improves and becomes more affordable, the current draw of the lights under discussion becomes so small so as to be trivial
__________________
Weyalan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 16:08   #26
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,766
Re: Confused about navigation lights

"Red over green -- sailing machine" -- merchant seaman's mnemonic for the meaning of that light.

Like others, I use a tricolor offshore, in the belief that it will be better seen free of interference of wave tops and sails, and for the sake of preservation of night vision. Deck level nav lights knacker my night vision, and make use of night vision scopes futile.

Power consumption is a non-issue for me now that I've gone to all LED nav lights.

I have recently installed Aqua Signal type 43 LED deck-level nav lights. Wow, what a blaze they put out. They are the same size as the Series 40 lights they replaced, but I guess the lumen output must be 5 times, maybe 10 times more, although the rating is the same (and the same as the toy-like Series 34 lights). They were pretty expensive, but worth it. They are very solid, potted and sealed for life, a different universe from the old ones. The only downside is that night vision is now completely hopeless with them on.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2013, 08:02   #27
Registered User
 
jeremiason's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Punta Gorda, Florida
Boat: Sea Ray 270
Posts: 1,427
Images: 2
Send a message via ICQ to jeremiason Send a message via Yahoo to jeremiason Send a message via Skype™ to jeremiason
Re: Confused about navigation lights

I don't think power consumption is a big deal any longer with the LED navigation lights, since even three LED running lights will draw less than one incandescent bulb. Also there are many aftermarket LED bulbs made that will fit into existing incandescent fixtures.

As far as using Tri-Colors when sailing... LEDs tend to be much brighter than incandescent bulbs. Using Tri-Colors off shore allow vessels to see you at greater distances than running lights mounted at deck level, especially in seas.

The thing to remember is that the Steaming light has to be located above the running lights, which is the reason you can't use a Tri-Color when motoring, since the steaming light would be below the running lights.

I agree with the above comments on the Sailing Light (Red over Green) after seeing them in use several times. It provides great visibility and allows you to keep on the lower running lights, providing more visibility. The problem is that in US Waters, most recreational sailors wouldn't know what the light meant since they are not used by most of the recreational sailors.

Finally, when you decide to mount your lights, make sure they are visible and have no obstructions. Many older boats and even some new ones coming straight out of the factories have obstructed navigation lights, which are blocked by rails or add on stuff.

If you are not considering off-shore cruising and are on a budget, skip the Tri Color, which in my opinion doesn't work well sailing in urban or coastal areas, like San Diego Bay. Legally you are required to display running lights, which on your boat to save money can be combined red/green fixture on the bow and an all round white light for steaming or anchoring as a basic system.

The last thing to remember is using your lights correctly... Navigation lights have many combinations and most sailors expect to see the right ones. Unlike powerboats, sailboats have the ability to make several combinations of navigation lights.

In my experience many sailboats use the wrong combination of lights, causing confusion to other vessels. For instance some boats think it is better to run both their running lights and the tri-color at the same time for better visibility, when in reality what people really see is two boats sailing. Same when using the tri-color with the steaming light or just doing what you think is best instead of what people expect to see based on the rules.
__________________
Tom Jeremiason
Punta Gorda, Florida

jeremiason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2013, 08:08   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,949
Re: Confused about navigation lights

By the way, when offshore using a tri-color masthead light I have had other vessels say they can't see me at a distance of some miles even though I show up on radar, so I then turn on the all-around white and they instantly come back that they see the white light. Something to keep in mind.
__________________
Kettlewell Cruising
Kettlewell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2013, 08:23   #29
Registered User
 
jeremiason's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Punta Gorda, Florida
Boat: Sea Ray 270
Posts: 1,427
Images: 2
Send a message via ICQ to jeremiason Send a message via Yahoo to jeremiason Send a message via Skype™ to jeremiason
Re: Confused about navigation lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Separate lights require twice as much power, twice as much wiring, and twice as many bulbs to replace, but they will be better in terms of visibility and not reducing night vision.
Bash you are still confusing incandescent bulbs with LEDs... Yes two LED bulbs will require twice the power, but at .10 ah per fixture who cares?

Also LED lights average life is about 50,000 hours and most new LED fixtures are sealed so you can't replace the lights.

As for wire, yes you would need more with two fixtures, but not as heavy a gauge wire as when using incandescent bulbs, which draw more amperage.

OP, if you can afford the extra fixture... Placing separate red and green running light fixtures on the outboard hulls would be better from a visibility stand point than having a single fixture on your bow rail.
__________________
Tom Jeremiason
Punta Gorda, Florida

jeremiason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2013, 08:29   #30
Registered User
 
jeremiason's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Punta Gorda, Florida
Boat: Sea Ray 270
Posts: 1,427
Images: 2
Send a message via ICQ to jeremiason Send a message via Yahoo to jeremiason Send a message via Skype™ to jeremiason
Re: Confused about navigation lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
By the way, when offshore using a tri-color masthead light I have had other vessels say they can't see me at a distance of some miles even though I show up on radar, so I then turn on the all-around white and they instantly come back that they see the white light. Something to keep in mind.
That is about the human eye... White and Blue are seen better in the dark and at greater distances than other colors.
__________________

__________________
Tom Jeremiason
Punta Gorda, Florida

jeremiason is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
navigation

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:04.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.