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Old 11-10-2013, 01:37   #31
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Re: Combining Solar, Wind and Alternators efficiently

the echo charge wires will only charge the engine batterys when the charger is on. it's basicly just the same as a 3 bank charger. with a main and 2 small outputs. unless you are on gen or shore, you don't get charge from the charger.

you still need a way to charge the start batteries from the alternators. I would recommend the promariner isochargers

do not combine the 2 start batteries as someone mentioned... keep them sepertate. and choose something that will charge all 3 banks from the alts.
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Old 11-10-2013, 05:32   #32
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Re: Combining Solar, Wind and Alternators efficiently

I just tested the batteries (direct to each terminal) with digital Multimeter and looks like one of the Exide Deep Cycle batteries has lost a Cell. Readings were:

BM-1 Monitor: house bank: 13.4V Unloaded and 12.4V Loaded with 4.8A
Number 2 in house bank: 10.74V Unloaded and 10.75V Loaded with 4.8A
Number 1 in house bank: 13.17V Unloaded and 12.25V Loaded with 4.8A

The bad Number 2 had one cell very low in acid, so I topped up but it had heavily gassed and was sitting in a bath of acid. I'll let it top up on the wind gen and see if it is recoverable, but could have dropped the cell permanently...
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Old 24-08-2017, 22:04   #33
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Re: Combining Solar, Wind and Alternators efficiently

I know this threads a bit old but i was just researching charging from multiple source's, i'm aware that with for example two alternators (on a twin engine boat) charging one battery bank only one alternator will lead doing the charging, the other will lag sensing the higher voltage and back down its output. Its the same with renewable energy, the regulator is basically the problem.
So i was wondering about Diversion or Dump Controllers whereas the inputs from multiple sources (wind, solar, water) are unregulated so each source gives full charge to the batteries regardless of what the other inputs are doing, the Dump Controller monitors the battery bank and once 100% full spills off excess charge to protect the batteries to a resister heater bank or better yet an element in your hot water tank so you heat your water with any excess power you make. It appears to be a very efficient way of collecting multiple renewable energy inputs.
An Alternator would still need to be regulated but it would just come in use if the battery bank is down if the renewable's are not performing, or you simply turn off your renewal inputs when you run your engine to get the most out of the Alternator which should have a muti step smart external regulator fitted to it.

[sorry the diagrams not in English but you'll get the drift)
*could not att pic?*

I note Watt & Sea Water Gen Controller has a Solar Input too but it chooses which input to draw from, whichever is putting out the most power, it wont take in Solar unless the Water Gen is not producing power so it never combines the two. Solar/Wind 'Hybrid' Controllers may work?
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Old 24-08-2017, 22:27   #34
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Re: Combining Solar, Wind and Alternators efficiently

Regarding dump controllers, I found them to be a bit of a trap, because if you are not careful they will seriously mess with any smart charge profile devices you have on the boat.

In the end I made own windgen regulator and told it to start dumping power from ONLY the wind gen once the solar regulator switched to absorption This way I was not messing with the clever algorithms in the solar regulator. And by the time absorption starts the total current required is well within the capabilities of the solar.
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Old 25-08-2017, 02:55   #35
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Re: Combining Solar, Wind and Alternators efficiently

I'm looking at a yacht with 100Amp Main Eng Alternator and 30Amp DC Generator, there is nothing else so looking to Add Solar, Wind and a Watt & Sea Water gen, i just want to plan the system the best way from the start so it all works together.
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Old 25-08-2017, 14:40   #36
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Re: Combining Solar, Wind and Alternators efficiently

Apparently that little doo-dad still doesn't exist.
The person that make the one that works will be able to cruise indefinitley.
See - Make Money While Cruising - List
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Old 25-08-2017, 18:19   #37
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Re: Combining Solar, Wind and Alternators efficiently

Apparently the drawing i posted in #33 under this line

[sorry the diagrams not in English but you'll get the drift)

was bumped because it had a copyright watermark, unfortunately this cruiserforum doesn't allow me to edit my post after about 10minites? (the only forum i'm on that locks us out, can't edit or delete, very frustrating!!) otherwise i would of found another pic to attach.

anyway here is the link to where that wiring pic was, scroll down near the bottom of the page, u can click on it to zoom in.
https://www.energiasolare100.com/it/...12-24-48v.html

multi unregulated inputs using diodes and a diversion controller with heater bank. If you went this way all inputs would need to be wired the same but other charge sources like Engine Alternators with Smart Regulators would need to run alone, i.e. the renewable sources may have to be switched off when motoring, as you suggest GILow Dump controllers can mess up smart controllers in the same circuit.

I will probably go with a Hybrid Wind/Solar Controller one that allows me to turn Off and On the individual sources when motoring, also when im sailing and the Water gen is running the Solar and Wind can be isolated, as said before if i used Watt & Sea's controller input for Solar it turns off the Solar when its ruining, and Wind gens dont work to well while sailing anyway, when im at anchor the Wind and Solar can do their thing
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Old 26-08-2017, 01:28   #38
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Re: Combining Solar, Wind and Alternators efficiently

Mal-l, would you please clarify that link for me?

I can see the Morningstar Tr60 which does have a dump function, however it dumps from the battery side according to my reading of its wiring manual when I looked at buying one a while back.

Matt
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Old 26-08-2017, 05:52   #39
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Re: Combining Solar, Wind and Alternators efficiently

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Originally Posted by GILow View Post
Mal-l, would you please clarify that link for me?
The wiring pic is the color one on that link

I can see the Morningstar Tr60 which does have a dump function, however it dumps from the battery side according to my reading of its wiring manual when I looked at buying one a while back.

Matt
Yep that is correct its all on the battery side, i was just reading a pdf on anther brand Coleman, they say the Wind Gen must stay connected to the battery bank, the Solar can be disconnected but the wind has to always stay connected(to protect it?) Wind/ Hydro/ Solar Input to the bank and anything over the set charging voltage is diverted, in this way they say the input power go's directly to the house load and not the bank, the bank doesn't have time to absorb it so long as the Diversion load is large enough to take it away, it's supposed to be 20% greater wattage than the total of all your gens and array, they recommended an auxiliary water heating element of the correct DC Voltage is the best choice, or they supply a load resister and its wasted as heat, I personally wouldn't want to dump it all but id be worried about overheating the tank on a sunny day, I reckon a good system would be to heat your water tank first but when the thermostat cuts off to have a change over contactor dump anything over and above to a second resistance load, when the thermostat closes again power goes back to the water heating element.

Dunno, its interesting stuff though, i like the idea of free hot water:-)
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Old 26-08-2017, 18:18   #40
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Re: Combining Solar, Wind and Alternators efficiently

Who cares about free hot water? Not me. I care about wind/solar/gen/alt...whatever, all going to the batts at full power till not needed.
Then worry about where the extra goes.
So far in my multiple years looking at this stuff there is not a way to do it "properly".
But then I have spent most of my time in FL so hot water is not needed much. "Ambient" water us just fine...
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Old 26-08-2017, 23:17   #41
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Re: Combining Solar, Wind and Alternators efficiently

Quote:
Originally Posted by mal_l View Post
Yep that is correct its all on the battery side, i was just reading a pdf on anther brand Coleman, they say the Wind Gen must stay connected to the battery bank, the Solar can be disconnected but the wind has to always stay connected(to protect it?) Wind/ Hydro/ Solar Input to the bank and anything over the set charging voltage is diverted, in this way they say the input power go's directly to the house load and not the bank, the bank doesn't have time to absorb it so long as the Diversion load is large enough to take it away, it's supposed to be 20% greater wattage than the total of all your gens and array, they recommended an auxiliary water heating element of the correct DC Voltage is the best choice, or they supply a load resister and its wasted as heat, I personally wouldn't want to dump it all but id be worried about overheating the tank on a sunny day, I reckon a good system would be to heat your water tank first but when the thermostat cuts off to have a change over contactor dump anything over and above to a second resistance load, when the thermostat closes again power goes back to the water heating element.

Dunno, its interesting stuff though, i like the idea of free hot water:-)

I looked at some similar ideas, and in the end I decided the KISS principal was my friend.

I figure that by the time my wind generator is dumping power, the batteries bank is so close to fully charged as to make the excess wind power academic. The wind gen often keeps the batteries at absorption voltage overnight, so as soon as the sun comes up the solar can finish the job.

Meanwhile, a good hot water system is enough of a challenge on its own (see Typhoon's excellent posts on the matter) that trying to incorporate an electric element into the mix just feels like a step too far.

So, yes, what you suggest is possible, but it feels like a lot of work for marginal return to me.

(Mind you, sometimes those are the fun jobs.)

Matt
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Old 26-08-2017, 23:19   #42
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Re: Combining Solar, Wind and Alternators efficiently

Quote:
Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
Who cares about free hot water? Not me. I care about wind/solar/gen/alt...whatever, all going to the batts at full power till not needed.
Then worry about where the extra goes.
So far in my multiple years looking at this stuff there is not a way to do it "properly".
But then I have spent most of my time in FL so hot water is not needed much. "Ambient" water us just fine...
+1.


What he said, minus the Florida bit.
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