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Old 23-01-2006, 12:05   #16
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No, no, maybe I need to read my posts better before posting. No, I meant the heat tiles on the shuttle are created in a similar fassion. So as contaminents are not introduced into the special ceramic.

There are two main types of creating and containing plasma's of this temperature.

Inertial for conatinment, which uses implosion technique from laser or Ion beam, or X-ray produced fom Laser and Ion beams to heat the particles.

Magnetic containment, which uses variuose methods of ehating from Magnetic compression to particle beams.

It's also important to understand the the quantities of fuel in Fussion are very small. I am not sure how much will be used in a commercial power station, but up untill know, the fuels tested are only microscopic particles. But the energy released is astronomical.
Example, the heat produced in a Fission reaction, is about 1000Kelvin. A Fussion reaction is about 10 to the power of 8.
The energy realeased in a Fission reaction is about 2.1x10 to the power of 12. A fussion reaction is about 3.4x10 to the power of 14. It's collosal.
It is alos important to understand, A fission reaction is using dense high mass material i.e. Uranium where as Fussion is using low mass particles like hydrogen.
The two particles used are usually H-2(deuterium)+H-3(lithium) which when slammed together become H-4 + n
OK, so now I am getting all nerdy and complex and I note variouse ones Eye's glazing over, so I'll stop right here.
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Old 23-01-2006, 12:50   #17
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Whew... I wish I had time to have a fun nerdy conversation with Wheels. I miss that kind of stuff. ha ha

If memory serves me correctly (and it's been 10 yrs since I was working in this field), the Tokomak does indeed use magnetic containment. The space shuttle's tiles can't withstand this heat either. Nothing can.

The trick is this:

Plasma is just a really cool sounding name for atoms that have been "torn apart" and exist as a nucleus and electrons all scrambled up. The extreme heat we were talking about that is needed to create plasma is what scrambles them in this case.

Once the atoms are "scrambled" up, they then have charges (nucleus is positive, electrons negative). Because the plasma is basically a gas of charged particles, they follow along magnetic lines of force.

Same thing happens all day long above the Earth. The sun is shooting out plasma at all the planets, but due to the Earth's magnetic field, this plasma is deflected down to the poles. (Think of what a bar magent picture look like in a grade school sience book - the Earth's field is basically the same). The plasma particles follow these magnetic field lines down and impact the atmosphere above the pole. This how the Northern Lights are formed. As the plasma hits our atmosphere, it lights up.

So, using this same principle (that plasmas follow magnetic field lines), if you can make a magnetic field line go in a circle (or in the shape of a bottle), you can contain the plasma by forcing it to stay within the magnetic field. This is how the Tokomak's magnetic containment field works. It's actually not as insanely science fiction-ish as it sounds.

It's just some really hot stuff that follows a magnetic field line that is more circular in shape.



As for the fusion part... now that's impressive. As the really hot plasma of whatever elements they choose to use for fusion fuses together, it creates even more heat. This means you can then use the heat water, turn a turbine and make electricity. If the fusion reaction is going well enough, you should be able to extract a useful amount of heat from it - more heat than you had to put in to get it going. This is the difficulty in fusion. Maybe this team has increased the efficiency.

Wow... must get back to sanding and finishing wood. It's fun to babble about science, but I'm no longer a scientist. I'm a sea captain. ha ha

Back to work.
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Old 24-01-2006, 18:05   #18
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Arrrr, now that's were I reckon the future of energy is. In the upper atmosphere. Experiments have already been played around with, by trailing a long cable down into the upper atmosphere were the Aurora is produced, via a spacecraft. The voltage is high and the current virtually limitless. The ability to connect to the feild has been reasonably easy. But so far, no one has a clue about how to now get all the energy back to earth.

And yes Sean. Your comment about efficiency is correct. No one has yet got Fussion to a very efficient cycle. I see that this station is noted as being experimental and that it is set for completion in 2016. Maybe they think technology will have changed by then. I also understand that this thing is being built in France, even though China is involved. I was a little worried at first, that China would have been playing with this sort of stuff. They are know to "sweep accidents under the carpet" so to speak.
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Old 24-01-2006, 19:31   #19
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Maybe we can each get a tether to our mastheads, and run via electric motors when the wind isn't cooperating.

At least we could add a fusion reactor to the list of items on that ever-useful barge from another thread a few months back.

PS: Did you find the cat ok??
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Old 24-01-2006, 20:10   #20
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Hey Sean.

Only if you're as rich as Donald Trump, or Bill Gates. If you were to afford a fussion reactor?
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Old 24-01-2006, 21:39   #21
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I think if we poked cables from Mast heads up into that stuff, we won't need motors. We will quickly grow wings.
Hmmm, whats black and dangles from the spread. = Wheels and Sean poking metal rods at lightning storms.
Now that little "Mr Fusion" thingy that the Doc had on the car in Back to future, would be the ticket.
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Old 24-01-2006, 21:48   #22
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Yeah, Mr. Fusion. Just put organic garbage into it. And you get power. Now that's an even better idea there, Wheels!!
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