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Old 14-04-2012, 08:58   #61
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Re: Car Alternator as Wind Generator?

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Originally Posted by foggysail View Post
Twenty years ago I designed and built my own wind generator. In fact I built 11 of them. I used a Ford 100 amp alternator as my starting point.[...]

I planned to market this thing!!!! FEAR OF LIABILITY stopped me from manufacturing them.

Foggy
Foggy, have you ever considered releasing your plans in the Open Source way?
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Old 14-04-2012, 09:14   #62
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Re: Car Alternator as Wind Generator?

Simple solution - buy a wind generator.
This is coming from a guy that builds almost everything himself. If there's one thing you don't need to build, this is it.
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Old 14-04-2012, 10:16   #63
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Re: Car Alternator as Wind Generator?

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Foggy, have you ever considered releasing your plans in the Open Source way?
I probably could have done that years ago but now finding all the documentation would be a pain. Somewhere I still have a box filled with them without propellers. Because of my fear of liability they are going to remain where they are. I have read histories of life changing liability suits to not venture down that road.

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Old 14-04-2012, 12:56   #64
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Re: Car Alternator as Wind Generator?

here's the output curve for a delco style PMA:

http://www.windbluepower.com/v/vspfi...dc540chart.jpg

it's moderately breezy today. I just put a volt meter on it and it's showing a no load voltage of around 60volts in the gusts. ( about 600 rpm ) I have a diversion load charge controller wired into a small water heater. The batteries are topped off and it's just making hot water. Tea anyone?
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Old 14-04-2012, 15:35   #65
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Re: Car Alternator as Wind Generator?

viento-
According to that chart it is putting out about 20V at 225rpm and rapidly increasing to 100V.
So wtf do you do with that voltage? Where's the advantage in that, for a 12v system?
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Old 14-04-2012, 15:44   #66
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Re: Car Alternator as Wind Generator?

Got any pics of this thing? Is it pretty?
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Old 14-04-2012, 15:48   #67
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Re: Car Alternator as Wind Generator?

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
viento-
According to that chart it is putting out about 20V at 225rpm and rapidly increasing to 100V.
So wtf do you do with that voltage? Where's the advantage in that, for a 12v system?
@hellosailor

I promised myself not to respond at this tread anymore, but you hit the button.

Maybe; maybe you find somewhere the time to follow the offered links and read a little bit about How Alernate voltage, Permanet Magnet Alternaters and their regulaters work................

Succes reading.

Ceesh
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Old 14-04-2012, 16:13   #68
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The comments about needing 2000 rpm are nuts. Many diesel engines will charge a bank at idle of around 800rpms. If you talk with an alternator shop they can often show you a curve of output amps vs rpm. My local shop talked me into a lower output alternator, 90 amps instead of 110, because it would effectively put out more power at my cruising rpm. Basically the value here to someone is in that they may be able to scrounge up an alternator free or close to it, but can't do that with a built system. I would expect that the OP would have better luck with a permanent magnet DC motor (something made for around 100v dc like a treadmill motor), but that aside, the OP didn't ask why he shouldn't do it, but rather if it could be done.

The simple answer is yes.
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Old 14-04-2012, 16:30   #69
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Re: Car Alternator as Wind Generator?

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The comments about needing 2000 rpm are nuts. Many diesel engines will charge a bank at idle of around 800rpms.
The alternator rarely spins at the same speed as the motor, there is usually a drive system e.g. belt, involved that changes the rpm of the alternator from that of the engine.
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Old 14-04-2012, 17:15   #70
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Re: Car Alternator as Wind Generator?

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The alternator rarely spins at the same speed as the motor, there is usually a drive system e.g. belt, involved that changes the rpm of the alternator from that of the engine.
The pulley ratio refers to the size of the crankshaft pulley divided by the size of the alternator pulley, which is smaller.

Most pulley ratios range from 2:1 to 3:1. Most alternators have their maximum output above 6,000 RPM.

If a typical alternator pulley ratio might be 3:1; then 6000 alternator RPMs would require 2000 engine RPM's.

Wind turbines will not generate axle speeds of anywhere near 6000 RPM.
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Old 14-04-2012, 18:11   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay
The pulley ratio refers to the size of the crankshaft pulley divided by the size of the alternator pulley, which is smaller.

Most pulley ratios range from 2:1 to 3:1. Most alternators have their maximum output above 6,000 RPM.

If a typical alternator pulley ratio might be 3:1; then 6000 alternator RPMs would require 2000 engine RPM's.

Wind turbines will not generate axle speeds of anywhere near 6000 RPM.
You are right, but we would still get something at lower than 2000 RPMs. I've seen wind gen RPMs quoted at around 600 RPMs somewhere.
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Old 14-04-2012, 18:11   #72
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Re: Car Alternator as Wind Generator?

Why the focus on maximum output? Purchased Wind generators in general do not put out Maximum Output anything like a car alternator... The real question is what does it put out at typical wind speeds.... not 6000-10000 rpm... right?
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Old 14-04-2012, 18:15   #73
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Quote:
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Why the focus on maximum output? Purchased Wind generators in general do not put out Maximum Output anything like a car alternator... The real question is what does it put out at typical wind speeds.... not 6000-10000 rpm... right?
Exactly, and it does depend a lot on the start point of the alternator. A high output alternator is going to generally need more speed to generate than a lower output alternator. This can be done, but there are better generating sources for home built wind than a car alternator (permanent magnet motor).
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Old 14-04-2012, 18:19   #74
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The alternator rarely spins at the same speed as the motor, there is usually a drive system e.g. belt, involved that changes the rpm of the alternator from that of the engine.
Right, but even at 2:1, you are only getting to 1600 RPMs with an 800 RPM idle, and the alternator is going to put something out before that point.
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Old 14-04-2012, 20:31   #75
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Re: Car Alternator as Wind Generator?

engele, when rpm and output are mentioned it is totally pointless to throw about numbers without some context.

In a specific context, a Delco CS130D, which is a most unusually robust alternator, puts out zero amps at 1000 shaft rpm. That's irrespective of engine rpm, that is alternator shaft rpm. By 1500 rpm it is putting out some 40 amps, but it does not supply the rated 100A until 4-6000 rpm (depending on model). On the other hand, that alternator can run all day and all night at 18000 rpm, so it can be belted up to an engine with, say, a 1:5 pulley ratio and put out full power at 800 rpm on the engine--without burning out at 3600 engine rpm.
the vast majority of althernators on the market have a similar need for 1000 shaft rpm in order to wake up and get started, but most of them will crap out at 2/3 of the maximum speed rating (i.e. 2400 engine rpm compared to the 3600 in the cenario above) which many engines could exceed.

So, outputs? rpms? Without knowing the context you're looking at, whether the rpms are engine or shaft, and without knowing the range that the alternator can tolerate?

That another problem with windgens, no matter what dynamo they are turning. Low speed, no power. Higher speed, kaboom.

For high efficiency DC generators, I'm told that modern electric drill motors make good donors. NASA lunar lander technology, premium magnets, mass production, really good conversion of electricity to motion and vice versa. Of course the gearing is all wrong for a windgen, and the max power rating isn't really great, but maybe there's a pony in that pile as well.
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