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Old 27-11-2018, 20:22   #1
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Cant get Nothern Lights Generator to start

So far i have been following the bleeding procedure and I got the fuel to show up at the inlet of Injection pump. Manual states that if engine does not start after typical bleeding procedure, you crack the injectors, and use primer lever to get fuel to each injector line one at the time.

Well I cant get the fuel to come out of injector line nuts. Ive been pumping for a while. I also tried cranking with injector nuts loose.

This generator has been sitting for 2 years. I did personally witness it starting when i went to look at the boat prior to purchase. It was somewhat winterized 2 years ago. Namely only RV antifreeze was pumped through the raw water side. But oil and fuel filters have not been changed.

I am not very familiar with these and any experience or advice would be appreciated.
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Old 28-11-2018, 00:28   #2
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Re: Cant get Nothern Lights Generator to start

Maybe something here?


https://citimarinestore.com/citiguid...hooting-guide/






Clive
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Old 28-11-2018, 04:36   #3
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Re: Cant get Nothern Lights Generator to start

You can always try to release the injectors a little and then crank the engine. When fuel appears at the injectors, continue cranking and tighten them.
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Old 28-11-2018, 04:58   #4
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Re: Cant get Nothern Lights Generator to start

If you can get fuel out of the high pressure lines by rotating the engine with the starter motor, tighten the nuts and use the preheat/ glowplug position on the keyswitch. The preheat is very important. Also wise to temporarily close the raw water intake to avoid backflooding the exhaust while cranking a reluctant engine.
If all fails and no fuel is seen at the injectors, it might mean that the injector pump is stuck in the no fuel position and this can be checked by unscrewing the stop solenoid at the rear of the pump housing and seeing if the pump control rack moves or not. If you're not confident doing this , probably best to get a mechanic.
Finally... check the stop solenoid operation .... it is activated to run and with no power the engine will not run.
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Old 28-11-2018, 07:04   #5
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Re: Cant get Nothern Lights Generator to start

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Originally Posted by skipperpete View Post
If you can get fuel out of the high pressure lines by rotating the engine with the starter motor, tighten the nuts and use the preheat/ glowplug position on the keyswitch. The preheat is very important. Also wise to temporarily close the raw water intake to avoid backflooding the exhaust while cranking a reluctant engine.
If all fails and no fuel is seen at the injectors, it might mean that the injector pump is stuck in the no fuel position and this can be checked by unscrewing the stop solenoid at the rear of the pump housing and seeing if the pump control rack moves or not. If you're not confident doing this , probably best to get a mechanic.
Finally... check the stop solenoid operation .... it is activated to run and with no power the engine will not run.
Raw water is closed. In fact rv antifreeze has been in there for 2 years. Step 1 is getting fuel to injectors. I am not going to check the preheat until I get fuel where it needs to be.
So if stop solenoid is not energized (activated), I wont see fuel at the injector lines. That seems like a legitimate reason why there's no fuel, even when I'm cranking.
What does not make sense then is manual saying you can use prime lever to get fuel all the way to injectors. It does not mention having to activate stop solenoid while pruming.

If solenoid indeed is blocking the fuel until energized, then its continuous duty, Meaning you have to keep solenoid energized in order to allow fuel to flow and generator to run. Continuous duty solenoids are $$$. I would be surprised of that's the case.

I'll check the injection pump rack to see if it's stuck.
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Old 28-11-2018, 07:43   #6
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Re: Cant get Nothern Lights Generator to start

I'm really reading the damn manual again. I was not holding the bypass/preheat while cranking. So bypass bypasses the stop solenoid during cranking. And I guess the solenoid must be continuous duty.
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Old 28-11-2018, 08:30   #7
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Re: Cant get Nothern Lights Generator to start

We had been having trouble and it was usually fuel drain back from the unit due to some air leak somewhere. Replaced hoses and valves which may have helped. But an electric fuel pump replacement from the auto store got it started again.
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Old 28-11-2018, 08:35   #8
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Cant get Nothern Lights Generator to start

Most all gensets during starting bypass the low oil PSI Murphy switch because if they didnít then of course they wouldnít start cause no oil pressure would be sensed.

Iíd be surprised if your stop solenoid were continuous duty myself, usually they are not and if they fail, it just means you canít turn the thing off, then you have to move the lever manually.

on edit, most low oil PSI switches are normally open and close when there is pressure, these are easily bypassed by merely jumping the switch.
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Old 28-11-2018, 08:42   #9
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Re: Cant get Nothern Lights Generator to start

Many diesels have continuous duty solenoids. When you press the start button you should hear/feel the solenoid click. Or just apply a 12v jumper to it's positive input terminal to check it directly without the start switch.
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Old 28-11-2018, 09:45   #10
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Re: Cant get Nothern Lights Generator to start

What model NL genset are we trying to start, I had assumed it was in the 5-15 kva group with the Shibaura engine but if it's in the heavy duty series with John Deere engines my comments will not apply.
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Old 28-11-2018, 11:27   #11
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Re: Cant get Nothern Lights Generator to start

The engine wonít start without the bypass switch held on, and continued held on for maybe 5 seconds after it starts.

And when bleeding the injectors, Iím pretty sure you need to hold the bypass switch on again, otherwise the stop solenoid will block fuel flow. Itís an energize to run solenoid.
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Old 29-11-2018, 16:25   #12
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Re: Cant get Nothern Lights Generator to start

the fuel rack stuck on mine,,,,,,,,, after sitting for a number of years
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Old 29-11-2018, 17:09   #13
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Re: Cant get Nothern Lights Generator to start

the cutoff is continuous duty...
easy to get and replace..
while cranking is yours getting 12v? if not..check the control box
relays..or jumper 12v directly to it...
open the injector lines and crank..stop when fuel comes out..
close them..crank again..it should start...DON'T FORGET TO OPEN
the RAW WATER WHEN IT STARTS!!! you destroy the raw water impeller
in seconds...been there done that...oops


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Old 29-11-2018, 18:20   #14
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Re: Cant get Nothern Lights Generator to start

M643 older version. So I looked over the wiring diagram and can confirm that it has continuous duty stop solenoid. So I just need to press the preheat/bypass before cranking if I expect to have fuel pass injection pump. In fact, preheat engages run relay and then even if you let go of preheat, run relay is still engaged so fuel rack is engaged until I press the shut down. Fancy stuff they put in to make the unit more apealing. And I think safer, because if stop solenoid fails, unit dies...no need to manually shift the lever or jamb towels in the air intake. I am just glad they shared the wiring diagram.Click image for larger version

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Old 29-11-2018, 18:23   #15
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Re: Cant get Nothern Lights Generator to start

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Originally Posted by phorvati View Post
M643 older version. So I looked over the wiring diagram and can confirm that it has continuous duty stop solenoid. So I just need to press the preheat/bypass before cranking if I expect to have fuel pass injection pump. In fact, preheat engages run relay and then even if you let go of preheat, run relay is still engaged so fuel rack is engaged until I press the shut down. Fancy stuff they put in to make the unit more apealing. And I think safer, because if stop solenoid fails, unit dies...no need to manually shift the lever or jamb towels in the air intake. I am just glad they shared the wiring diagram.Attachment 181481
I've had a faulty solenoid on my main diesel engine recently so I am very cautious.
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