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Old 26-05-2018, 16:32   #31
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Re: Can i double over wire and crimp it?

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Depending on the actual size of the LED wire (often somewhere 22 and 26 gauge), you can fold it over once or twice as you suggest and then red crimp (16 to 22 gauge) for the folded section and cut a few strands from the 14 gauge wire to fit into the red crimp.
I've done this. And used heat-shrink connectors to both keep moisture out, as well as adhere the connector to the wire cover so that its much more difficult to pull out in case of accidental snag and pull.

I've pretty much gone to heat shrink connectors on everything. And a heat gun instead of a lighter! And dip the wire in dielectric grease before sticking into the connector.
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Old 26-05-2018, 17:24   #32
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Re: Can i double over wire and crimp it?

In addition to being susceptible to corrosion, soldered connections are brittle. It's a good idea to throw in a stress loop and then wire tie them so that there is no stress/force applied to the soldered connection. I did that recently with a radar ethernet cable where I did not have a waterproof ethernet junction.

I would not fold wire back against it's insulation and then crimp...it effectively removes half the surface area of contact with the wire. Not a good thing. Some heat shrink over the crimp should provide enough stress relief with small wires.
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Old 26-05-2018, 17:25   #33
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Re: Can i double over wire and crimp it?

thanks all for all the great advice. decided how i'm going to approach this...since i already have (50) 14 gauge ancor butt connectors on hand.

i'm going to wrap the wires together just below the stripped insulation and tape together then wrap the stripped portions together, dip in dialectric paste and crimp the wrapped pair in one end of 14gauge butt connector, fill unused side with liquid tape and then heatshrink the entire connection down past the end of the wrapped wires where i taped them together.

should be plenty strong for an LED connection and good contact.
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Old 26-05-2018, 17:44   #34
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Re: Can i double over wire and crimp it?

The reason for heat shrink is not so much moisture, in many cases, as strain relief. Small wires can easily fatigue.
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Old 26-05-2018, 20:59   #35
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Re: Can i double over wire and crimp it?

Crimp caps are the way to go. Not only is small-gauge wire hard to terminate, but it is also very fragile as well. If you electrical tape the wires together back a couple of inches from the crimp cap it will act as a strain-relief and keep that strain off of the connection and the fragile strands that might have been nicked when the wire was stripped.

I like to dip the entire crimp cap into a can of liquid electrical tape, making sure to fill up the mouth of the crimp cap and totally sealing off the conductor and crimp, making the joint as waterproof as the wire is. Sometimes a couple of dips, waiting until the first coat has dried will be necessary as some bubbles may form the first dip and leave a path for moisture. Liquid electrical tape is a bit soft and can be easily damaged in rough locations so if that is the case you can slip a bit of marine-grade heatshrink over the top and shrink it down, then pinch off the end flat when it is still hot, creating a very strong, sealed, and waterproof coating.

I also like to treat every conductor with anti-ox grease such as Ideal Noalox or GB Oxgaurd before crimping rather than dielectric grease. It's a conductor, an anti-oxidant for aluminum and copper, and also a lubricant which allows the crimp to actually pinch down harder and deform the copper strands better into a cold weld.

This is how we do it in the commercial and industrial electrical trades when in a wet/corrosive location when a wire-nut won't do. We will sometimes do this procedure over a properly-tightened wirenut as well, creating a permanent connection every bit as good as a crimp and totally moisture-proof.
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Old 27-05-2018, 05:51   #36
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Re: Can i double over wire and crimp it?

... you just twist the wires together, then crimp on the best-fitting cap. You can waterproof by dripping glue or sealant into the one open end.[/QUOTE]

Now that is smart. Thanks for the solution to a problem I also have.
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Old 27-05-2018, 08:19   #37
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Re: Can i double over wire and crimp it?

Agree - solder them together with shrink tube to cover.
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Old 27-05-2018, 15:46   #38
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Re: Can i double over wire and crimp it?

Use bootlace ferrules, which will contain wires



Search ebay for bootlace ferrules. They are available in many sizes.


Seal with heat shrink tubing,



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Old 27-05-2018, 20:12   #39
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Re: Can i double over wire and crimp it?

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about to get started with LED upgrade project and as many of you know the LED wire coming from the fixture is very small diameter. i need to crimp that onto 14 gauge wire. can i just strip back a bunch of insulation on the LED wire, fold it over one or two times and crimp it into the 14 gauge crimp or is that a big NO NO?


There is no end of specialist crimping systems for led wiring including large to small gauge. There are waterproof solutions and water resistant fittings. Spend some time finding the best led supplier in your area and go for a "system" on connection. These are not all "marine" fittings as we use some in water features swimming pools and outdoor lighting.
It's a whole new world of electrical fitting. Bewitch lights having 5 year warranted now the connectors and other fittings need to be of a similar life quality. This costs a little more in the short term but in commercial applications the cost benefit analysis is strongly in favour of do it once - do it well.
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Old 27-05-2018, 20:44   #40
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Re: Can i double over wire and crimp it?

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Somewhere I saw a set of crimp-on ferrules that "thicken up" those tiny wires. They are actually made for terminating wires to plug in to euro-style terminal blocks. But that would require sending away for stuff, and of course, another expensive dedicated crimp tool.

I usually just resort to western union splices and heat-shrink on those, with or without a drop of solder.
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Old 28-05-2018, 01:47   #41
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Re: Can i double over wire and crimp it?

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SJ--those are not made to carry power.


Correct they are telephonic wire connectors
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Old 28-05-2018, 04:17   #42
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Re: Can i double over wire and crimp it?

When you change a wire size by 3 you are doubling or halving, just like in dB.

To get from 24 AWG to 16 AWG
24 AWG doubled once (2 strands) = 21 AWG
24 AWG doubled twice (4 strands) = 18AWG
24 AWG doubled three times (8 strands) = 15 AWG

22 doubled once = 19
22 doubled twice = 16

Just a rule of thumb so you know how many times to fold over.
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Old 28-05-2018, 04:19   #43
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Re: Can i double over wire and crimp it?

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Correct they are telephonic wire connectors
Try to not be holding a bare telephone wire when the phone rings.

Telephone wires carry power, just a small amount. The “ring current” is enough to worry about momentary.
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Old 28-05-2018, 04:35   #44
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Re: Can i double over wire and crimp it?

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Originally Posted by james247 View Post
Correct they are telephonic wire connectors
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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
SJ--those are not made to carry power.
Telephones, while low power consumption, do use power. And the IDC style connectors used with phone lines were designed decades ago when phones took more power than modern electronic devices. The use of IDC connectors with low power LED installations is not inconsistent with their original design intent.

Since they are not intended as "power" connectors they are not sold with a current rating, but 3M does test their UY connectors with 9A @ 22AWG and 3A @ 26AWG. The test procedure consists of running the design current for 15 minutes then increasing the current by 25% (what 3M considers the 'overload' condition) and running if for 45 minutes, then shutting down for 15 minutes, wash/rinse/repeat for 50 cycles. All of this to determine if the cycling/heating causes connection failure - the results are that resistance of the connection increases less than 5% after all 50 cycles, at 22AWG resistance increase is less then 0.5 milliOhm, at 26AWG it does go up by about 2 milliOhm.

The real problem with the IDC connectors is the same as the OP's original problem, getting a connector that is properly sized for both the 14AWG power wiring he has and the ???AWG small fixture wire that comes with the LEDs. Most of the IDCs of this type can be had down to 19AWG or even 16AWG, but not larger (and still fit the 'small' fixture wire). The suggestion to look at specialist swimming pool (and irrigation system) connectors was spot on, there are any number of new 'waterproof' connector styles/systems available to address this very problem.
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Old 28-05-2018, 04:59   #45
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Re: Can i double over wire and crimp it?

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Try to not be holding a bare telephone wire when the phone rings.

Telephone wires carry power, just a small amount. The “ring current” is enough to worry about momentary.
Correct!

FWIW, the numbers are:
Ring voltage is ~60VAC, 17 Hz.
Typical loop resistance (copper cable telephony circuit) is 1 to 3 Kohms.
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