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Old 04-09-2009, 09:29   #16
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Would it not be better and easier to use a cable tray ... If you are talking those grey plastic ones with the snap covers (maybe 2 x 2 cross section?) I think it would be a great idea maybe for any long straight run... (rear of boat through engine room?)
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:17   #17
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In my opinion, the Panduit cable trays are a PITA!

For straight runs, I use, and recommend, eBoard from King Plastics the folks who manufacture Starboard. eBoard is a 4' x 8' sheet of polymer plastic with loops every 6" in either a square or parallel configuration. You use cable ties to tie wiring, tubing, or piping to the eBoard. The eBoard comes with two backs: plain, if you can fasten the eBoard to the underlying surface (hull, bulkhead, deck, etc.) and scrimmed for attaching the eBoard to the underlying surface with an adhesive (5200 Fast Cure and hot glue is an excellent combination for this application).

No affiliation except for being a very happy customer:King E-Board
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:29   #18
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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
vaseline isnt a conductor is it? Yea the Duplex is nice for bilge pumps etc...
Vaseline seems to disappear after a few years. Because of this I quit using it years ago. Yes, Vaseline, silicon grease and Tef-Gel are all non-conductors. With a good crimp connection, those semi-solids will not cause any increase in resistance over plain bare clean metal. What they do for you is to displace water and oxygen and will clearly stop or dramatically decrease oxidation of the termination. Of course, oxidation is a non-conductor and will increase resistance through a wire termination. I think it is far more important to be concerned about future oxidation than to worry about those water displacing semi-solids being non-conductors...which really is not an issue.
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Old 04-09-2009, 11:02   #19
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I'd recommend this for labelling the cables

Dymo RhinoPro1000 handheld labeler, label printer

Plus the heat shrink DY-18051 labels. You can wrap these around the wire ends and label them something that makes sense. With this you can simply glance down at the wire and find out what it is for, rather than try to consult a lookup chart for colors (which don't stay the same color as they fade, get dipped in diesel and oil, etc), or having a bunch of tags flopping around which 1) don't hold on very well. 2) end up getting all tangled with each other in tight connections, such as to the back of a breaker panel 3) end up a bit down from the end of the wire, which is what your looking at, so in a tangle of wires with the tags all grouped together can be challanging to try to figure out what is going where. With this machine you can label the wires with a small neat font that actually fits onto your wire. If you hand write them it will either have to be too large to be practicable or so small that no one can actually read your hand writing. This is cheap, neat and will give it a true professional appearance.
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Old 04-09-2009, 11:07   #20
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Using an ultra fine point on wire with an outer armor shell works as well. No hassling with a labeler.
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Old 04-09-2009, 12:17   #21
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"Dip the wire in vasoline before you crimp it,"
I asked the folks at Chilton's about that years ago, when they suggested putting it on car battery terminals. Their answer was that Vaseline is cheap and available--but yes it is the wrong material for the job. It DOES CONDUCT, not much but some. And it does migrate, especially in heat.
The correct materialfor the job is silicon dielectric grease, typically about $6 for a one-ounce tube if you buy it that way. But also sold as "silicon high temperature grease" "silicon brake grease" (for auto brake parts) "light bulb grease" and a couple of other names. As brake grease, it can be $5 for a 10-12 ounce tube. Never migrates, doesn't conduct. Keeps the rot out.

Also watch out for "label printers" almost all of them use thermal media, and the entire label will burn and turn black in a year or two in enclosed spaces that heat up. Learned that the hard way. The best long-term labelling is laser printer (inert carbon black in a binder) that is permanently glued or hung in place, or permanent ink on a similarly durable tag.
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Old 04-09-2009, 12:30   #22
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conductive grease

here.... pic
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Old 04-09-2009, 23:12   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoonerdog View Post
I'd recommend this for labelling the cables

Dymo RhinoPro1000 handheld labeler, label printer

Plus the heat shrink DY-18051 labels. You can wrap these around the wire ends and label them something that makes sense. With this you can simply glance down at the wire and find out what it is for, rather than try to consult a lookup chart for colors (which don't stay the same color as they fade, get dipped in diesel and oil, etc), or having a bunch of tags flopping around which 1) don't hold on very well. 2) end up getting all tangled with each other in tight connections, such as to the back of a breaker panel 3) end up a bit down from the end of the wire, which is what your looking at, so in a tangle of wires with the tags all grouped together can be challanging to try to figure out what is going where. With this machine you can label the wires with a small neat font that actually fits onto your wire. If you hand write them it will either have to be too large to be practicable or so small that no one can actually read your hand writing. This is cheap, neat and will give it a true professional appearance.
I second this BIG TIME...the best 100 or so dollars you'll spend.

The heat shrink is nice but they also have adhesive backed wrap around material that allow you to easily re-label after the end is on and connection is made, and label on flat and other shaped other surfaces.

Well worth it!!
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Old 05-09-2009, 05:59   #24
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Also - in any location that may get wet it pays to have somewhat longer cables that are then coiled once to create a loop (any water will drip from its lower end) to keep water off conectors and avoid water travelling along the wires towards less accessible locations.

We have them loops:

- under the mast,
- under every deck gland (fore and aft lights in our boat).

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Old 05-09-2009, 06:24   #25
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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Also - in any location that may get wet it pays to have somewhat longer cables that are then coiled once to create a loop (any water will drip from its lower end) to keep water off conectors and avoid water traveling along the wires towards less accessible locations.

We have them loops:

- under the mast,
- under every deck gland (fore and aft lights in our boat).

b.
Excellent point, That's what we did during the 18 years I worked for the phone company. We used to loop incoming wires to the Dmarc to let any rain or moisture harmlessly follow the wire to the loop and fall harmlessly down, preventing any water from reaching any connections. Actually, If it sn't included already, ABYC should mandate it.

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Old 07-09-2009, 05:50   #26
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DON’T routinely use “common” negative returns (grounds). Generally, run a separate negative with each positive wire.
The savings (of common gnd) are inconsequential, and the potential difficulties this shoddy practice can cause are legion.
When is "common" not common? At some point, the negative ground wires have to attach to something other than the negative terminal of the battery post.
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Old 07-09-2009, 06:43   #27
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When is "common" not common? At some point, the negative ground wires have to attach to something other than the negative terminal of the battery post.
By "common", I mean "shared".

I am referring to branch circuit wiring, generally defined as those wires originating downstream of a circuit protective device (CPD), such as a fuse or circuit breaker, usually located in a distribution panel.

Hence, the “common” negative return wire, to which I object, is one that is shared by two different circuits (positive wires from different CPDs).

There are another class of shared “common” wires, to which I don’t object. For instance, the two positive wires from a bilge pump selector switch (“Test/Manual On”, and “Automatic”) to the pump motor can share a common negative return. These separate positive wires both originate at the same CPD (single circuit). Other acceptable examples occur where two-pole circuit breakers provide “split” AC receptacle circuits, and utilize a shared “common” neutral wire.
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Old 07-09-2009, 07:16   #28
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Excellent point, That's what we did during the 18 years I worked for the phone company. We used to loop incoming wires to the Dmarc to let any rain or moisture harmlessly follow the wire to the loop and fall harmlessly down, preventing any water from reaching any connections. Actually, If it sn't included already, ABYC should mandate it.

Jeff
Wo be un to the tech that did not leave a drip loop on the drop wire at the protector or terminal termination when the quality man came, huh?
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Old 07-09-2009, 11:25   #29
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By "common", I mean "shared". I am referring to branch circuit wiring, generally defined as those wires originating downstream of a circuit protective device (CPD), such as a fuse or circuit breaker, usually located in a distribution panel. Hence, the “common” negative return wire, to which I object, is one that is shared by two different circuits (positive wires from different CPDs).
So, is it a bad idea for example to put a ground bus behind a bulkhead to receive ground wires from say the battery charger and the fuel tank and the blower and the navigation lights, and then connect that bus to the main ground bus nearer the battery with a properly sized wire or cable, and then do the same to connect that main ground bus to the negative terminal of the battery, when there are different fuses or circuit breakers on the positive wires for all those appliances; whereas the better practice would be to run all the ground wires from those items back to the main ground bus intended to serve those circuits originating from the same source, eg the house 12 volt panel for the the house branch circuits, or the main engine start battery ground bus for engine branch circuits?
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Old 07-09-2009, 12:25   #30
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Here is a purely theoretical schematic for discussion, just to play with this idea about the best way to share or not share grounds. See my last post.
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