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26-08-2017, 03:33
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 61
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bilge on/auto
Good Morning,
I'm rewiring everything in a old westerly 1956 kingfisher that had minimal electrical. I'm making my schematic and buying the last of my electrical components. Most bilge switches have auto, off and on selections. I dont like the idea of this choice. Am I wrong in thinking that auto should remain on at all times through the float switch and only a manual on should be available to crew ? I see someone inadvertently bumping the (auto/ off / on) type switch to off position leaving the boat vulnerable while no one is aboard. My question is one of curiosity why would they design this three position switch it should be either on or auto not off. Apparently I'm not thinking properly or missing something as almost every switch I see has a off in the middle.
Bob
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26-08-2017, 04:52
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Panama City FL
Boat: Island Packet 32 Keel/CB
Posts: 995
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Re: bilge on/auto
Bob,
Your thinking is pretty accurate. Most would like the ability to turn off a device (for several reasons) thus the center off position. Might want to consider a toggle switch guard that tends to force the switch into the auto position, but can be flipped out of the way to turn the switch off or manual on.
https://www.delcity.net/store/Toggle...BoCDHAQAvD_BwE
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26-08-2017, 05:28
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Atlantic Highlands, NJ
Boat: Mason 43
Posts: 141
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Re: bilge on/auto
My float switch and pickup are on different sides of the center line, when healed to starboard the switch is submerged and the pickup is dry thus the off position.
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26-08-2017, 05:38
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sailing Lake Ontario
Boat: Mirage 35
Posts: 1,126
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Re: bilge on/auto
The PO of my boat installed an aircraft-type switch with a protective cover: you have to intentionally lift the cover to switch to off or manual, closing the cover forces the switch to the automatic position.
__________________
Beam me up, Scotty. There's no intelligent life down here.
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26-08-2017, 05:39
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sailing Lake Ontario
Boat: Mirage 35
Posts: 1,126
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Re: bilge on/auto
Which I now see is pretty much what Frankly said.
__________________
Beam me up, Scotty. There's no intelligent life down here.
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26-08-2017, 06:08
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: U.S., Northeast
Boat: Currently boatless
Posts: 1,643
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Re: bilge on/auto
Here's an argument for leaving it in the off position:
- If you're not on-board and have a significant water leak, your battery will run down and the pump won't help
- If the water leak is slow and the pump keeps up, it will only mask the problem.
- If you're on board and the pump is quiet, you may not hear it and it will mask the problem. Better to check the bilges on a regular basis and pump out manually.
I normally leave my pump off. If I found a leak, I'd turn it to auto to give me time to find and fix it.
A pump cycle counter would help mitigate #2 and #3 above.
__________________
... He knows the chart is not the sea.
-- Philip Booth, Chart 1203
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26-08-2017, 06:13
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sailing Lake Ontario
Boat: Mirage 35
Posts: 1,126
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Re: bilge on/auto
The PO also had an answer to numbers 2 and 3 - installed an audible alarm on the bilge pump with another switch to shut it off when desired. I leave it off because I can hear the pump when I'm on the boat, and don't want to drive the neighbors crazy if it cycles in the marina.
As for number 1, it sounds like the logic is to leave the pump off so the battery won't drain but the boat will sink faster. Not sure what the right answer is.
__________________
Beam me up, Scotty. There's no intelligent life down here.
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26-08-2017, 07:16
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: U.S., Northeast
Boat: Currently boatless
Posts: 1,643
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Re: bilge on/auto
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnglaisInHull
As for number 1, it sounds like the logic is to leave the pump off so the battery won't drain but the boat will sink faster. Not sure what the right answer is.
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Not really. The logic is that it probably won't help, but if it makes you feel better you can leave it on auto. I certainly see many boats with bilge pumps cycling with no one on-board.
My point was that an argument can be made for leaving the switch in the off position.
__________________
... He knows the chart is not the sea.
-- Philip Booth, Chart 1203
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26-08-2017, 07:22
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Cruising the world
Boat: Hylas 54
Posts: 414
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Re: bilge on/auto
My float switch got stuck once (permanently) and it was nice to be able to turn the pump off and on manually until I could replace the switch.
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28-08-2017, 14:02
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: East of the river CT
Boat: Oday Mariner 19 , Four Winns Marquis 16 OB, Kingfisher III
Posts: 657
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Re: bilge on/auto
I like to use on-on switches. Wired thru either a easily accessible fuse (pull the fuse) or thru a breaker. I like Push Pull breakers (pull off) hard to shut off by accident. This was the setup Hinckley used for years on their boats. With this setup no worry about shutting the pump off at the switch just shut off the circuit protection if you need to work on it etc.
As far as how useful a pump can be in auto mode. I used to work at a marina. Dock sinkers were almost always boats with their auto bilge shut off. I rarely saw a boat with a functioning auto bilge and a shore power connection or solar sink. Most common reason was from heavy rains. Leaves would clog cockpit drains when boats were left they would swamp and start sinking. Or sometimes they just had really bad deck leaks. Honestly I would always leave the auto on (properly fused etc).
__________________
mysite: Colinism.com
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28-08-2017, 14:23
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Boat: Trident marine Voyager 30
Posts: 814
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Re: bilge on/auto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Call
Good Morning,
I'm rewiring everything in a old westerly 1956 kingfisher that had minimal electrical. I'm making my schematic and buying the last of my electrical components. Most bilge switches have auto, off and on selections. I dont like the idea of this choice. Am I wrong in thinking that auto should remain on at all times through the float switch and only a manual on should be available to crew ? I see someone inadvertently bumping the (auto/ off / on) type switch to off position leaving the boat vulnerable while no one is aboard. My question is one of curiosity why would they design this three position switch it should be either on or auto not off. Apparently I'm not thinking properly or missing something as almost every switch I see has a off in the middle.
Bob
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Left my switch in the off position this spring by mistake. Next spring it will, be changed to a switch with no off, only on and auto.
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30-08-2017, 07:54
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#12
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Commercial Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Boat: Gulfstar Long Range Trawler; 53'; BearBoat
Posts: 1,534
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Re: bilge on/auto
Colin A #10: +1
ON-ON with no center OFF will eliminate the problem of inadvertently leaving the pump OFF. The typical momentary RUN switch on production boats {(ON)-OFF-ON} ties up one crew member keeping the pump running if the float switch has failed.
If in AUTO and water is rising, the breech is too large for the pump, the pump switch is inop, or the pump has failed. The inop pump switch problem is eliminated by switching the selector switch to RUN providing a parallel path from panel to pump. The operator is then free to find the source of the leak and slow/stop it. Most bilge pumps are inadequately sized and installed to handle a substantial watertight integrity failure. The only way to survive is to find the failure and reduce or eliminate the ingress of seawater.
__________________
Charlie Johnson
ABYC Master Technician
JTB Marine Corporation
"The Devil is in the details and so is salvation."
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30-08-2017, 08:31
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 25,515
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Re: bilge on/auto
Use the standard setup. There may be times when you want to turn it off. Add the bilge pump indicator light. Could be a a godsend. Before I added an indicator, I was sailing along and something just seemed like the motion of the boat wasnt right. I went down and lifted the bilge cover. The water was right up to the bottom of the floor! ......and that is how I learned not to put a flapper valve in the pump outlet hose because I was being anal about that little bit of water that kept returning to the bilge after the pump shut off.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard
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30-08-2017, 10:13
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 931
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Re: bilge on/auto
You might carefully mount the pump switch where it will not get bumped. If I was redoing mine, which does get bumped, I might go inside a cabinet or other well out of the way location.
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30-08-2017, 10:27
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: miami,fl
Boat: EggHarbor,Sportfish,35
Posts: 320
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Re: bilge on/auto
Leave the switch off. When you return to your boat and it has sunk....then you know you had a significant leak! Aye...
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