Best practice for desulfation battery bank

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by phantomracer

The fuel cell puts out pretty good current (6.x a) day and night...and is keeping up with the draw without batting an eyelash. Solar is just not an option. I might get a small one to assist during the day, but don't have the real estate for permanent panels.

The dumb charger i just meant the old school ones that just pump out amps without stages like most of todays...just trying to figure out if the charger I have is a good choice or if there are better ones.

Unless I run out of methanol (only once so far) the battery never drops below low 12v (12.2 maybe) as the fuel cell kicks in and hits it with 6.x amp til it gets to 14.2v and goes into a multi stage float program. It just seems to be coming on more than I expected, leading me to my original question about best practices and keeping the system in good health.

Keeping up with the draw is one thing, keeping batteries in good shape is another thing. Of course it is your boat and you decide; if you have answers you like then yo do not need to ask.

If you want meaningful contribution regarding that fuel cell and its relate charger please provide data about the "Multi stage float program".14.2 V absorption voltage is too low for most flooded batteries that are actually cycled (ie used as storage rather than as "capacitors" as in a car). Duration of absorption stage is another issue.

[phantomracer]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

This fuel cell is a form of battery charger? Or is it making 6 amps of 110V power, that runs the regular battery charger?
Sorry, but as your on a mooring, I don't understand where the 110V power to run the WM charger is coming from.
Sounds like the fuel cell monitors battery voltage and comes on automatically to charge the batteries?

Yes the fuel cell is a methanol powered battery charger (like solar is a solar powered batter charger), but works day and night at a constant, controlled, rate like a smart multi-stage charger

Clean, fully automatic charging of on-board batteries | EFOY

the WM charger is for when I am on the hard (or at the dock, which is very rare)

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by phantomracer

Yes the fuel cell is a methanol powered battery charger (like solar is a solar powered batter charger), but works day and night at a constant, controlled, rate like a smart multi-stage charger

Clean, fully automatic charging of on-board batteries | EFOY

the WM charger is for when I am on the hard (or at the dock, which is very rare)

What model do you have?

EFOY 600 / EFOY 900 / EFOY 1200 / EFOY 1600 / EFOY 2200?

[phantomracer]

Originally Posted by svlamorocha

Keeping up with the draw is one thing, keeping batteries in good shape is another thing. Of course it is your boat and you decide; if you have answers you like then yo do not need to ask.

If you want meaningful contribution regarding that fuel cell and its relate charger please provide data about the "Multi stage float program".14.2 V absorption voltage is too low for most flooded batteries that are actually cycled (ie used as storage rather than as "capacitors" as in a car). Duration of absorption stage is another issue.

I don't have the answers, which is why I am asking..

Being on a mooring has challenges, especially running refrigeration. I don't know that I am getting the best performance out of my batteries, and don't know where the problem is (or if there is even one)

I purchased a programmer for the fuel cell and I will up the voltage (comes pre-set at 14.2) There is a writeup on the program the fuel cell uses to charge. I can't seem to find it at the moment. not to dissimilar to other smart chargers.

If I am doing something wrong, I want to nip it in the bud now

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by svlamorocha

What model do you have?

EFOY 600 / EFOY 900 / EFOY 1200 / EFOY 1600 / EFOY 2200?

Or do you have on eof the Comfort models that let you set voltages, absorption time, etc? If so please share your settings, which would explain your symptoms.

[phantomracer]

Originally Posted by svlamorocha

What model do you have?

EFOY 600 / EFOY 900 / EFOY 1200 / EFOY 1600 / EFOY 2200?

1600 fuel cell on Mildred Rose

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by phantomracer

I purchased a programmer for the fuel cell and I will up the voltage (comes pre-set at 14.2) There is a writeup on the program the fuel cell uses to charge. I can't seem to find it at the moment. not to dissimilar to other smart chargers.

If I am doing something wrong, I want to nip it in the bud now

Doses the system you have let you program the following settings?

You can select the following options in the "Battery
parameters" menu:
- Switch-on delay
- Switch-on voltage
- Switch-off voltage
- Switch-off current
- Absorption time
- Max. charge time

If so please share what are the values of those settings right now.
C

[phantomracer]

Originally Posted by svlamorocha

Or do you have on eof the Comfort models that let you set voltages, absorption time, etc? If so please share your settings, which would explain your symptoms.

it is pre-set at the factory. I just purchased the programmer so i can tweak the settings

[Stu Jackson]

Paul,

You might want to learn more about batteries and their care:

The Ample Power Primer http://www.amplepower.com/primer/primer.pdf

I haven't read about your fuel cell, yet, but solar is always suggested when on a mooring.

[phantomracer]

Originally Posted by svlamorocha

Doses the system you have let you program the following settings?

You can select the following options in the "Battery
parameters" menu:
- Switch-on delay
- Switch-on voltage
- Switch-off voltage
- Switch-off current
- Absorption time
- Max. charge time

If so please share what are the values of those settings right now.
C

they are the default. i haven't changed it yet. Just received the adapter yesterday

[phantomracer]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Paul,

You might want to learn more about batteries and their care:

The Ample Power Primer http://www.amplepower.com/primer/primer.pdf

I haven't read about your fuel cell, yet, but solar is always suggested when on a mooring.

true.. solar works pretty poorly at night, when I have my laptop, fridge, lights, etc on. Fuel cell is pretty cool, but not inexpensive.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by phantomracer

The fuel cell puts out pretty good current (6.x a) day and night...and is keeping up with the draw without batting an eyelash. Solar is just not an option. I might get a small one to assist during the day, but don't have the real estate for permanent panels.

The dumb charger i just meant the old school ones that just pump out amps without stages like most of todays...just trying to figure out if the charger I have is a good choice or if there are better ones.

Unless I run out of methanol (only once so far) the battery never drops below low 12v (12.2 maybe) as the fuel cell kicks in and hits it with 6.x amp til it gets to 14.2v and goes into a multi stage float program. It just seems to be coming on more than I expected, leading me to my original question about best practices and keeping the system in good health.

Part of the problem with the Efoy is it uses an old school ON/OFF rather "dumb", if you will, charge protocol as it ships from the factory..

It allows the battery to discharge to approx 12.3V then it turns on and brings the bank to 14.2V. At 14.2V it then shuts off and lets the battery voltage decay to 12.3V again before it turns on again..

This is simply not a healthy charge algorithm for lead acid batteries as it does not hold a proper absorption voltage time and does not hold the battery at "full" because it is allowing it to "cycle" or drop to somewhere around 60-65% SOC before turning on again. You are essentially PSOC (partial state of charge) cycling the bank every day...

If the ON point is bumped to 12.9V to 13.0V the battery would remain fuller but the Efoy would have shorter run-time cycles and I am unsure if this is "recommended".

The ON/OFF parameters on the Efoy can be changed but this requires Efoy software and a computer. Best to consult with Efoy on this and specifically ask about what impact any short-cycling will have on the longevity of the unit. A 13.0V ON point is much better for the batteries as you are not using their capacity but it would create a very short run time back to 14.2V and this I am unsure of as to the health of the Efoy. I've quoted a number of them and done the research but not yet installed one. One of my main frustrations is the charge algorithm which is really old school...

The Efoy is really not a charger as it ships because it uses your batteries for about 35% of their capacity before bringing them back to 14.2V and shutting off again. A battery charger would maintain them at full and the battery charger would supply the needed power when plugged in...

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by phantomracer

It just seems to be coming on more than I expected, leading me to my original question about best practices and keeping the system in good health.

[QUOTE=phantomracer;1873472]

Your concern is spot on. More that practices it is about the balance of the system design. The charger built into the fuel cell is too small (5 amps at 14.5V) to feed the amps absorbed by the 262Ah batteries in the early stage of absorption PLUS the fridge draw.

Therefore the "program" will restart and you cannot rely on the "float" stage. You end up having 2-stage charger. You need to get the absorption (2nd stage voltage) right (high enough) to preserve the batteries, but then you will have the issue that your batteries will get cooked if the absorption timer resets too early as I described, because it will not trip to float.

Now you understand why MaineSail was not keen on these things..

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...r-76749-2.html

Ignore MaineSail´s musings at your own peril!

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by phantomracer

Solar is just not an option. I might get a small one to assist during the day, but don't have the real estate for permanent panels.

I understand your reluctance about ugly solar panels; that is a very nice boat..

That said, I wonder if you have seen some of the new flexible panels installed on a bimini with velcro. See below a photo of my little piece of French white plastic.





It may not be as elegant as your boat but I would argue that the 2x100W panels do not look bad.. I am planning to install two more in the coachroof. At $200 a piece I don´t worry much about stepping on them and damaging them..

[phantomracer]

Originally Posted by svlamorocha

I understand your reluctance about ugly solar panels; that is a very nice boat..

That said, I wonder if you have seen some of the new flexible panels installed on a bimini with velcro. See below a photo of my little piece of French white plastic.

Attachment 105748

Attachment 105749

It may not be as elegant as your boat but I would argue that the 2x100W panels do not look bad.. I am planning to install two more in the coachroof. At $200 a piece I don´t worry much about stepping on them and damaging them..

I am likely going to augment the system with a small portable solar panel, but I can't get myself to mount them permanently. being on a mooring, id have to keep them parallel to the earth which is not optimal, they work best perpendicular to the suns rays, which i can't aim being on a mooring