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Old 16-02-2007, 16:26   #1
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battery technology

well it seems that battery technology is finally getting to the stage that i would like for my boat check out the following link and tell me what you think
Torqeedo GmbH: Product description

a couple of these would keep my cat nice and light as well as well as giving me the ability to pull my batteries down to 20% so a much larger capacity available, i believe they can be recharged faster as well
sean
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Old 16-02-2007, 17:37   #2
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Li-Ion batteries appear to be the wave of the near future.
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Old 16-02-2007, 17:57   #3
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Didn't see anything about cost. Like the new hybrid vehicles, the high cost sometimes many times over out ways the benefits. It is unfortunate since those costs could be recovered over time if the public accepts and buys the product on a mass scale. But the manufacturers want immediate profit and wonder why it just doesn't appeal to the broader public.
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Old 16-02-2007, 20:04   #4
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Those little motors look cool. I'd like to see one in action. The Li-Ion batteries are the future. I'm not sure why its hard to find large boat size Li-Ion batteries. In my experience with radio control electric airplanes I discovered how much power they have for their weight. It's really incredible. Anyone know if there are large 12v Lith-ions available?
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Old 16-02-2007, 20:47   #5
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Li-ion still has a long long way to go before you will see it in "general use" situations such as vehicle/boat batteries. They are increadibly expensive and are still fraut with many problems. IMO I don't think we will ever see these in at least their present form, beign used for vehicle power. I think there are too many issues to overcome. Li-ion has been around a long long time. The concept was first developed over 90yrs ago. Only the development of micro-semi conductor technology made it feasible to produce for a consumer market in the early 90's. Advanced Fuel cell technology has been around for a very short time when compared and if we have the same time in other fuel cell technology, I believe we will se great leaps in what becomes available for the vehicle markets.
The big issue with Li-ion is going to be charging. The electronicsrequired to make the things safely work are already inside the battery and is what makes the price very high, but add the special charging equipment you are going to need, and I just don;t see it ever being affordable, feasible and practicle for large "house bank" use on boats.
Then add to all the above, that they are still very suseptible to failure because of the electronics inside. A failure of one componet renders the entire battery useless. You can't just open these things up and "fix" them. It's Lithium.
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Old 16-02-2007, 22:44   #6
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From what i've read the " Full River" AGM battery is about the best thing around today that is affordable.

Fullriver Batteries


And yes, they are from CHINA

Dave
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Old 16-02-2007, 23:55   #7
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Hi Guy's
I am awaiting a quotation for two motors, 4 batteries etc for our HT26.
Will let you have the details when I recieve them.
Regards
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Old 17-02-2007, 00:51   #8
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Yikes Dave, they have a 2V 800Ahr. Make up a 12V bank with those and you have 4800Ahr. Enough to light teh QM2
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Old 17-02-2007, 00:53   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do
From what i've read the " Full River" AGM battery is about the best thing around today that is affordable.

Fullriver Batteries


And yes, they are from CHINA

Dave
Oh no! I hate those damn capitalists!

Checked out some prices and they are pretty good. Thanks Dave.
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Old 17-02-2007, 00:54   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler
Yikes Dave, they have a 2V 800Ahr. Make up a 12V bank with those and you have 4800Ahr. Enough to light teh QM2
No, Wheels. Make up a 12 v bank and it's 12v, 800 Ah.
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Old 17-02-2007, 06:02   #11
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i think the claims made by this website are pretty impressive, to have a battery that you can pull down to20% and after 1000 cycles it still charges to 75% is pretty impressive, ( a useable 45 amps) from what i have read about lithiums you dont have to worry about 3 stage charging either i would be interested in the prices for something like this, the weight issue is pretty cool to

i reckon all those l420 guys need to buy a few so as to bring the price down for us more budget cat guys
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Old 17-02-2007, 07:46   #12
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I think it will be the automotive industry that will drive down costs of new battery technology. A few hundred cat owners are a fart in the ocean compared to rolling off a few million hybrid road vehicles.
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Old 17-02-2007, 08:33   #13
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Ceramics - Eestor

I have trolled this forum for a long time. Lot's of new technologies out there, but one with higher promise (but no final confirmation) is the concept of replacing batteries with a capacitor. That is what the tiny company Eestor in Texas is attempting. They have patented a ceramic capacitor with initial storage capacity of about 14Kw using a sandwich of barium titanate ceramic plates and lots of coating layers between. They are under contract with Zenn motor company to provide electrical energy to their hybrid cars. Many details not forthcoming as expected considerable pressure from many industries.

But it has got my interest as it recharges as fast as capacitors, 5 minutes or so for full recharge. No loss of capacity for a long time...... and of course watt density is huge.

They are building a production plant or so they allude.... but they have no website and are not talking much. Promise is delivery on mass supply by 2008. Doesn't mean anyone can get one, but they will supply their sponsors by then.

There is a known drawback, that voltage is not constant on discharge thus may require electronic stabilization for some things.

Just for interest I leave the Wiki website and you can poke from there. This is a lot closer than fusion and may still be pricey $5000 or so the bank, but in time full production and adoption by other industries can really improve on cost. Might finally make hybrid more practical than 720 pounds of battery ballast and some replacement frequency.

JT

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:EEStor
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Old 17-02-2007, 08:54   #14
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Let's Hope

JT,

Thanks for the reference. Let's hope this doesn't fizzle. It truly sounds revolutionary.

In the course of researching battery pulsing technologies for a project I'm working on, I had occasion to converse for quite a while with someone I'd be tempted to call a "mad scientist". An older fellow, he's been involved in engineering projects for years, and produces one of the more colorful pulsing devices for batteries.

But, he said, he's no longer interested in that stuff. What has captured his interest, and his investment, is the field of nanocoating. If you Google nanocoating and delve in a bit, this is a field which is receiving a great deal of attention and investment. The "mad scientist" said it's application in the field of electrical storage (batteries) and solar panel technology were of particular interest to him, and he claimed to be already nearing the "production phase" for some revolutionary new products.

His quote: "forget EVERYTHING you know". He truly believes we're not far from producing new products which will greatly reduce or eliminate our dependence on fossil fuels, and which will change the basic economics of modern society.

Whatever the case may be, the new 15KW "super cap" energy storage device which weighs in at 100 lbs puts out about ten times as much energy as two T-105 golf carts....also about 100 lbs, and can be recycled "a million times" and charged "in five minutes"...is mighty appealing!

I want one :-)

Bill
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Old 17-02-2007, 09:13   #15
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This does sound exciting and I do believe we'll see more soon. The one thing that bothers me about all this is the 5 minute recharge claim. If the battery capacity is 15kWh, you'd need an input of 180kW to fully charge this in 5 mins. I'm pretty sure that would melt your standard shoreside cable and set fire to your dock.

What this does mean is that we're seeing more and more demand for better batteries and more and more people coming up with solutions. This is only good for us consumers. For current and future hybrid owners this is awesome news as it's only going to get better. One of the reasons I opted for lead-acid batteries on my L420 is I think it's a good bet on the near term future. Hopefully, some of this new stuff will e establisged by then and we'll have quite a choice when it comes to replacement.
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