Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-06-2012, 04:14   #16
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Can I get some feed back on 'number' of batteries from others? Do others believe six 200amp batteries is too many? Ted
__________________

__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 05:13   #17
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,327
Re: Battery Switch Wiring

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedsherrin View Post
Can I get some feed back on 'number' of batteries from others? Do others believe six 200amp batteries is too many? Ted
It is not so much as too many but rather how many do you need and how much charging capacity do you have.

If you have a large electrical load, it might only be just enough; on the other hand, if you have a very low load, you have way too much and just carrying excess weight (and dollars!). For instance, I get by with a single 150 AH battery but others do not!

Likewise, if you have a large capacity, you must have some way replacing what you use or you end up with partially discharged batteries - which is a bad thing.

Start off by doing a power budget to determine exactly how much capacity you need.
__________________

__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 05:19   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 250
Re: Battery Switch Wiring

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedsherrin View Post
Can I get some feed back on 'number' of batteries from others? Do others believe six 200amp batteries is too many? Ted
That is alot of amp hrs for a 35 foot boat. I would cut back to three (which is still plenty of amp hrs) and look for ways to reduce my amp hour usage. Replacing lights with led's would be a good place to start.
__________________
slowshoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 05:28   #19
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 8,514
Images: 14
Re: Battery Switch Wiring

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedsherrin View Post
When I came down from Adelaide in Sept last year, over ten days, the four batteries (800ah) did run down rather quickly, basically by next morning after running through the night, they were pretty low.
Will not the engine + solar + wind gen (future) replace the power?

Again, I'm here asking because I am a complete novice. Value all your inputs. Love the article by Main Sail that Stu submitted. It's been the easiest thing for me to follow so far. Ted
Ted, yes it will, but like others I am concerned were 800ah disappears over night or even say 50% of it. So you have the fridge/freezer and auto pilot plus lights and radar running but even so that's a lot of power being used. The downside is that this then has to be replaced which will take an awful long time with a standard alternator. You can fit bigger alternators or even a smart widget to boost the existing alternator

Sterling Power Products: Alternator Regulators

However, its all more and more dollars. It would be much better to reduce the power requirements which would mean less battery charging, fewer batteries and possibly a simpler installation.

Like Wotname, we get by with a house bank of 220AH and would be spoilt it we upped this to 330AH.

Pete
__________________
Moody 31 - April Lass
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 07:54   #20
Registered User
 
nitpik's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Canada, North Channel of Lake Huron
Boat: 41' Colvin Gaff-rigged Schooner
Posts: 222
Send a message via Yahoo to nitpik Send a message via Skype™ to nitpik
Re: Battery Switch Wiring

Do you have the 240A to 300A alternator to match that 1200 Ah battery bank?
A smaller alternator will likely burn out sooner because it will always be asked to operate at 100% output. The batteries will never see a 100% state of charge, probably not even 80%, and so they will also not "live long and prosper."
It is not as simple as saying: "You can't have too much battery power." The whole system needs to be balanced.
__________________
Some days you step in it ............... some days you don't.
nitpik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 08:14   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 238
800ah overnight??? I couldn't use that if I tried! Do you have a 4000 watt inverter powering a woodworking shop onboard?

My 34 footer has no refer, windless or inverter, but it does have all incandescent lights, radar, plotter, fishfinder, autopilot, television, DC outlets used for charging devices, and a perpetually running stereo. We frequently go out for a week at a time, using lights and watching movies all night, and I never run the motor to charge the batts.

According to my battery monitor history, my maximum discharge has been only 18 percent! I have a 260ah bank maintained by a 50 watt solar panel.
__________________
Jbaffoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 08:44   #22
Registered User
 
ka4wja's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Florida
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 2,033
Re: Battery Switch Wiring

Ted,
Bill gave you the straight scoop here....reread all of what he wrote.....

Further.....
1) Like the others I find 1200 A/H to be a fairly high number for a 35' boat, and I have a BIG house battery bank myself (with 1125 A/H on my current 47' sloop)....
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedsherrin View Post
Can I get some feed back on 'number' of batteries from others? Do others believe six 200amp batteries is too many? Ted
And, allow me to repaet the advice of others....You REALLY need to do an energy budget.....
Without an energy budget (how much energy do you use daily/weekly, and how are you going to generate/replace that energy), it is VERY difficult to determine solar array size, wind gen size, or battery bank size requirements.....

BUT.....





2) But, I wonder if you really do have a 1200 A/H battery bank??? Reading what you wrote here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedsherrin View Post
My boat when I picked it up had four 200ah batteries, but spots for two more. One dead battery that looked like an audinary car battery was still in place and hooked up.. The seller even told me it was dead. Then there was a spot for another battery which battery terminals, but no battery in there. IN addition, there is a pretty decent starter battery.
I'm wondering if you, in actual fact, have a "normal sized" battery bank using some "ordinary car battery"-sized batteries????


Assuming we are speaking about deep-cycle / lighting / house batteries here, "ordinary car battery" size batteries "A/H" ratings WILL be significantly below 200 A/H!!!!
Depending on the exact "ordinary car battery" size and manufacturer, these will have A/H ratings between 65 A/H to 105 A/H.....
Group 24 size ~ 65 - 80 A/H
Group 27 size ~ 85 - 95 A/H
Group 31 size ~ 95 - 105 A/H


You would need to go up to a large 4D or 8D ("truck sized batteries") in order to get to the 200 A/H range.... (with 4D's ~ 180 - 200 A/H, and 8D's 210 - 275 A/H)

If you wish to know exactly what batteries you have, you'll need to LOOK at them, get their manuf and model# and look them up....
But, the figures I give here ARE accurate.....

And just FYI, that old generality is pretty true...."the heavier the battery, the more A/H's" (and you can approximate it with each pound of weight being equal to about 1.3 to 1.5 A/H, depending on the exact batteries...)






3) Now onto another telling aspect.....what "condition" your batteries are in...even if you had a large battery bank, your writings show that the former owner didn't have much respect for the existing batteries, and I suspect that they don't have a great deal of capacity anymore....
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedsherrin View Post
My boat when I picked it up had four 200ah batteries, but spots for two more. One dead battery that looked like an audinary car battery was still in place and hooked up.. The seller even told me it was dead. Then there was a spot for another battery which battery terminals, but no battery in there.
My advice is to do some investigating here.....determine exactly what batteries you have, making sure they are deep-cycle / lighting / house batteries, how old they are, and what condition / capacity they currently have!!!

And, then do an energy budget to determine what batteries, what solar, etc. you require/desire....




Fair winds...

John
s/v Annie Laurie
__________________
ka4wja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 09:49   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by ka4wja


Assuming we are speaking about deep-cycle / lighting / house batteries here, "ordinary car battery" size batteries "A/H" ratings WILL be significantly below 200 A/H!!!!
Depending on the exact "ordinary car battery" size and manufacturer, these will have A/H ratings between 65 A/H to 105 A/H.....
Group 24 size ~ 65 - 80 A/H
Group 27 size ~ 85 - 95 A/H
Group 31 size ~ 95 - 105 A/H

You would need to go up to a large 4D or 8D ("truck sized batteries") in order to get to the 200 A/H range.... (with 4D's ~ 180 - 200 A/H, and 8D's 210 - 275 A/H)



Fair winds...

John
s/v Annie Laurie
I agree with everything you said, but there's plenty of room to quibble over the conservative Ah ratings above. For example, Trojan makes a Group 27 with a 20-hour rating of 115, and a 30H rated at 130.

Still, your points are all well taken.
__________________
Jbaffoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 10:02   #24
Registered User
 
ka4wja's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Florida
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 2,033
Re: Battery Switch Wiring

jbaffoh,
No worries here....just trying to help Ted!!!
My point, as I wrote above, was that using the words that Ted himself wrote, made me wonder if he really had 200 A/H batteries....
I did NOT write that he didn't, just that I was "wondering".....

Not sure how me using some "generic" figures means we must quibble???

If you wish to quibble, that's fine, but (in my opinion) sort of defeats the purpose of trying to help....yes???
And, yes, my Rolls/Surrettes 8D's are 375 A/H's.....and while the 30H's might be 130 A/H they're taller, etc...but all this diverts from the basic queries here, dosen't it???

Oh, well gotta' go....
Fair winds...

John
s/v Annie Laurie
__________________
ka4wja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 10:03   #25
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chesapeake Region and Maine
Boat: 42' Bob Perry sloop
Posts: 4,038
Images: 4
Re: Battery Switch Wiring

John, K4WJA, is exactly right and on point (post #22 above).

Bottom line: before you do anything else....including asking for more advice...do some investigating to be absolutely sure of what you've got (battery type, size, AH rating, age, condition, and how they're all connected and charged), and what your needs may be (i.e., do an "energy budget").

Bill
__________________
btrayfors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 10:43   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by ka4wja
jbaffoh,
No worries here....just trying to help Ted!!!
My point, as I wrote above, was that using the words that Ted himself wrote, made me wonder if he really had 200 A/H batteries....
I did NOT write that he didn't, just that I was "wondering".....

Not sure how me using some "generic" figures means we must quibble???

If you wish to quibble, that's fine, but (in my opinion) sort of defeats the purpose of trying to help....yes???
And, yes, my Rolls/Surrettes 8D's are 375 A/H's.....and while the 30H's might be 130 A/H they're taller, etc...but all this diverts from the basic queries here, dosen't it???

Oh, well gotta' go....
Fair winds...

John
s/v Annie Laurie
Wow. Re-read the first and last sentences of my comment. Why so verbose and defensive?
__________________
Jbaffoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 10:44   #27
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,385
Re: Battery Switch Wiring

Here's how to do an energy budget

Energy Budget
__________________
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 10:46   #28
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 2,961
Re: Battery Switch Wiring

Quote:
Originally Posted by ka4wja View Post
jbaffoh,

And, yes, my Rolls/Surrettes 8D's are 375 A/H's.....

John
s/v Annie Laurie
Sorry to go off-topic here for a moment, but was wondering about your 375ah Rolls 8D's. I'm only curious because my LifeLine 8D's are rated at 225ah, and the newer ones at 250ah I think. Are your Rolls flooded vs. AGM & does that account for the difference?

Thanks,
Dan
__________________
Exile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 11:01   #29
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chesapeake Region and Maine
Boat: 42' Bob Perry sloop
Posts: 4,038
Images: 4
Re: Battery Switch Wiring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Sorry to go off-topic here for a moment, but was wondering about your 375ah Rolls 8D's. I'm only curious because my LifeLine 8D's are rated at 225ah, and the newer ones at 250ah I think. Are your Rolls flooded vs. AGM & does that account for the difference?

Thanks,
Dan
Dan,

Generally, flooded batteries have a slightly higher 20-hour AH rating than do AGMs of the same size.

John probably has the Rolls/Surette 12EHG375M, 375AH (8D)...it's a modular battery with six removable cells which fit the form factor of an 8D.

Bill
__________________
btrayfors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 11:03   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile

Sorry to go off-topic here for a moment, but was wondering about your 375ah Rolls 8D's. I'm only curious because my LifeLine 8D's are rated at 225ah, and the newer ones at 250ah I think. Are your Rolls flooded vs. AGM & does that account for the difference?

Thanks,
Dan
They're not true 8D's. They're modular flooded cells in an 8D sized box.
__________________

__________________
Jbaffoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battery, wiring

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.