Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-09-2006, 05:35   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
Bill,

I installed a Sulfator across a pair of AGM 8Ds (paralelled) which were perhaps a year and a half old. Along with 110amp solar array things seem to be going well. I will report back in a few years on how the Sulfator works. I amusing the boat mostly for weekend crusing. Winter lay up I use a Xantrex TruCharge 20 and an EchoChage for the start batt.

Jef
sv Shiva
Contest 36s
__________________

__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2006, 06:04   #17
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chesapeake Region and Maine
Boat: 42' Bob Perry sloop
Posts: 4,038
Images: 4
Jef,

Thanks very much for your reply. It will be interesting to see what happens in a few years time.

Together with two partners, I'm in the midst of a series of tests of several of these devices. We're testing them on golf-cart size banks of gelled cells, flooded cells, and 8-D AGMs of varying age and condition.

Because the tests require lengthy periods for each cycle (e.g., charging/pulsing for 3-weeks, followed by 1-day rest, then a 20-hour load test), it's taking a bit of time. Hope to have some preliminary results in a few weeks.

I was hoping Rick would have some knowledge or experience with these devices. They are now fairly common in the military and the general aviation fields, and I've seen an accumulating mass of "scientific" data to support their use. Much of this is interesting, but not fully convincing. So, we're just trying to answer the question, "Do these really work, or is this just snakoil?"

Stay tuned :-))

Bill
S/V Born Free
__________________

__________________
btrayfors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2006, 06:06   #18
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chesapeake Region and Maine
Boat: 42' Bob Perry sloop
Posts: 4,038
Images: 4
Oops....snakeoil, not snakoil. Better finish my coffee :-))
__________________
btrayfors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 16:20   #19
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,037
Rick-
"All lead acid batteries designed for deep discharge and high current loads can be equalized. There are a few caveats regarding the process"
Would one of the major caveats be that some/most AGM batteries are designed to VENT at pressures below those required for the equalizing process? I've heard some venting off very shortly after reaching 14.6V, making a 15V+ equalizing charge guarantee only that they'd blow off electrolyte.
Building the stronger case would of course cost more, and possibly lessen interior space (= capacity).
Does anyone besides LifeLine recommend equalizing their own brand of AGM batteries?
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 18:33   #20
Registered User
 
EagleSailTwo's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cape Cod
Boat: GulfStar 43 Mk II... EAGLE
Posts: 41
Surrette has this info available for their batteries http://www.boatelectric.com/surrette.htm##507 - Battery Charging and Systems
__________________
EagleSailTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 21:16   #21
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,037
Boatelectric is just a distributor apparently. Among other things they knock plastic cases and say rubber is better--but I've never heard any reason for that. Rubber is 1920's technology, that's all. They also happen to sell a Nanopulser, which they claim is really the only way you're going to get maximum battery life from your batteries. http://www.boatelectric.com/pulsegentech.htm They're marching to a different drummer. Ergh, pulser?<G> Which is not to say they're wrong about that, just different from most battery/charger makers.

Surrette is the Canadian half of Rolls/Surrette, according to the Rolls (US) main web site at http://www.rollsbattery.com/

And interestingly enough, apparently R/S don't use the rubber cases that boatelectric prefer, they use plastic cases--with individually replaceable cells bolted up inside. Wet acid only, not AGM. I don't think anyone disputes that R/S are a top quality industrial battery, usually commanding an equally top price not often paid by "small" boaters.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2006, 04:16   #22
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,579
Images: 240
Jef:
"... I amusing the boat ..."
I must know just how you keep your boat amused.
Our boats have always been fairly unresponsive to most jokes, games, et al. I've even tried reading to them.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2006, 11:32   #23
Senior Cruiser
 
Alan Wheeler's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marlborough Sounds. New Zealand
Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady
Posts: 8,038
Images: 102
You feed them money Gord. I am sure the amusment they get is from watching us feed them great quantities of our hard earned finance.;-)
__________________
Wheels

For God so loved the world..........He didn't send a committee.
Alan Wheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2006, 12:41   #24
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,037
You're not supposed to roll them over and tickle them under the keel?

You mean I've been doing it wrong all these years?!<G>
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006, 19:45   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Japan
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor
Does anyone besides LifeLine recommend equalizing their own brand of AGM batteries?
Trojan recommends AGAINST equalizing it's AGM batteries. It's stated on their webpage. I haven't noticed any other company's recommendations about it yet.
__________________
skyking2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006, 22:55   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle area (Bremerton)
Boat: C&C Landfall 39 center cockpit "Anahita"
Posts: 1,076
Images: 6
Equalizing lead-acid batteries

Please keep in mind that although that some of the inverter/chargers on the market offer an "equilization mode" they do not truly follow a valid textbook equalization. Equalization of a battery is fairly literal in that the goal of the method is to equalize the cell-to-cell internal specific gravity and, therefore, the cell-to-cell voltage (cell voltage is linearly related to specific gravity). In order to do that variations in sulphation across the plate areas must be removed and converted back into lead oxide. In order to do that a constant current is forced through the plate areas between 3 and as much as 7 percent of the Amp-hour rating of the battery until sometimes more than 2.8 Volts per cell is reached at which time the process is terminated.

Who do you know with equipment aboard capable of doing that? Right, almost no one ashore much less those afloat. That is one reason that AGM suppliers do not want to advertise that their batteries can or should be equalized...most people would use the wrong equipment, like their inverter/chargers that can damage such batteries (although not necessarily so).

I have had occasion to try out a few of those "pulse-chargers" and so-called suphation removal chargers. I have not found one that does what they claim and I have found none that does as good of a job as the decades old constant-current method of a "valid" equalization cycle. Keep in mind that you can to this day buy a breast enlarger yet can anyone verify with a medical authority that one really works as claimed?

One caveat before applying an equalization mode is to first begin with a battery that has been subjected to a proper charging cycle and left to stand on float for at least 24 hours. If one attempts to equalize an AGM battery that has not first been carefully observed to be properly charged then, most assuredly the battery will gas and possibly vent with a permanent loss of water from the electrolyte.

With flooded-cell constructed batteries I have had to apply as much as three "valid" equalization cycles before the specific gravities of all of the cells really lined up. These were batteries which had cycle-by-cycle been heavily discharged and not properly "filled" in between.

Regardless, what I have observed is that ALL types of lead-acid batteries fair much better at not requiring equalization if they are cycle-by-cycle charged with a 3-step charger that has the absorption mode set to the upper limit of voltage AND terminated into the float mode at the correct time (this implies the use of a proper battery monitor that controls the charger, like a LInk 1000 and the older Freedom series of inverter/chargers....the monitor "knows" when it is time to go to float because it has measured the fact of just how many Watt-hours that have been removed from the battery and how many have been put back in, in addition to the usual Amp-hour measurements.

Furthermore, I've observed that ALL types of lead-acid batteries designed for heavy loads and deep-discharges when subjected to Amp-hour-law charging almost never need equalization. Recall that the 3-step chargers approximate the Amp-hour-law charging regimen.

Hope that this helps clear up some conceptions and misconceptions.
Regards,
Rick
__________________

__________________
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battery

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RF Noise from Mastervolt Alpha Pro BachAndByte Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 4 21-08-2004 05:33
Problems in Florida salty Other 5 07-05-2004 08:54
repatriation problems sealevel101 The Sailor's Confessional 1 14-08-2003 02:28
BATTERY VALUE GordMay Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 5 17-07-2003 22:42



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:45.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.