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Old 25-05-2015, 09:39   #31
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Re: Battery life

If you mean battery alarm from the standard jeanneau panel I would check batteries with a voltmeter, or battery monitor.
I have a newish jeanneau and I get random over volt warnings from the jeanneau panel but my victron battery moniter shows no problem. In fact if you compare the volts from jeanneau panel and victron Bmv they are never the same, the victron has a very steady slow change in volts when various power hungry devices cycle but the jeanneau panel shows rapid swings up and down in the voltage so I don't think it's very accurate in the short term when power consumption is changing.
My advice would be buy a cheapish battery monitor, lots out there and some don't even need a shunt, so simple to install, and this will give u a better idea the state of your batteries. Do bear in mind jeanneau uses cheaper sealed batteries that have a limited life and don't like deep discharges as much as some of the more expensive types.

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Old 25-05-2015, 09:44   #32
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Re: Battery life

Who knew batteries would be such a hot topic!

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Old 25-05-2015, 10:03   #33
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Re: Battery life

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Who knew batteries would be such a hot topic!

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Old 25-05-2015, 10:19   #34
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Re: Battery life

What they said about cleaning all connections first.

Do be sure to turn off the electric hot water heater before unplugging at the dock.
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Old 25-05-2015, 20:05   #35
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Re: Battery life

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Who knew batteries would be such a hot topic!
Do a search. I bet there are close to 1,000 threads on batteries in this forum alone.
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Old 25-05-2015, 20:20   #36
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Re: Battery life

I had a new 2011 Jeanneau 409. During the 2nd year I had a very similar experience with batteries. With the help of the dealer that I bought it from Jeanneau ended up replacing the battery charger and paying for replacement batteries. I think it had to do with the charger not cycling down from then bulk stage.
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Old 25-05-2015, 20:44   #37
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Re: Battery life

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Who knew batteries would be such a hot topic!

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You could cool things down instantly with a little more information.
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Old 25-05-2015, 21:04   #38
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Re: Battery life

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Originally Posted by Eileena View Post
I had a new 2011 Jeanneau 409. During the 2nd year I had a very similar experience with batteries. With the help of the dealer that I bought it from Jeanneau ended up replacing the battery charger and paying for replacement batteries. I think it had to do with the charger not cycling down from then bulk stage.
Well this makes sense, so as I suggested insufficient or misinterpreted regulator or temp sensor feedback, so cooking off. Actually quite dangerous by the way!

FAR more so with overcharging Li Ion batteries though. They can go off like powerful bombs.
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Old 26-05-2015, 13:54   #39
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Re: Battery life

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First thing first, get a Balmar Smart Gauge because it's a great instrument to have anyways. After that is installed see how the batteries are performing. You will then know if you have a battery issue or an alarm issue.

I know this is not a cheap method to figure out a simple problem but you may as well start to upgrade now to help you in the future.

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First thúng first. You Really need a battery mọnitor to protect your battery investment and understand your power needs. By all means check your connections, electrolyte, etc but after years of knowing my batteries status, my daily power use and production, I'd be lost without a victron or comparable.

Before expensive "first things first" -- just top off electrolyte levels (assuming flooded lead acid), charge overnight, turn off the charger and let the batteries rest for a while (e.g., 24 hours), and then use a (relatively inexpensive) multimeter at the batteries to check voltage.

All that other stuff is good, eventually, but you can cut to the chase relatively quickly with simple testing first.

Then use what you learn to decide what other "first thing first" might be in order. If that happens to be new batteries, you can solve that relatively quickly... then you can improve things afterwards.

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Old 29-05-2015, 13:47   #40
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Battery life

Ok, so a slight update. I haven't been to the boat but I called my repair guy and I have AGM batteries, a bank of 5. He said he checked them about 6 months ago and sent a recommendation to the broker who helped me purchase the boat, that they weren't holding a charge and needed to be replaced. This was never passed on to me. Apparently the previous owner couldn't get the generator to run (2 year old boat with only 27 hours on the generator) and he ran the batteries down past 60% a couple times. I was told this will shorten the life of AGM batteries. So I can't top them off as they are sealed. I can check myself, but I trust my guy. He says they should last 5-6 years and three is short but I don't know how the previous owner handled them. I'm gonna look up the battery model and manufacturer and see what kind of warranty they have. If it's 4 years I may get it covered. I'll keep everyone updated.


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Old 29-05-2015, 14:25   #41
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Re: Battery life

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Originally Posted by Fulmitz View Post
Ok, so a slight update. I haven't been to the boat but I called my repair guy and I have AGM batteries, a bank of 5. He said he checked them about 6 months ago and sent a recommendation to the broker who helped me purchase the boat, that they weren't holding a charge and needed to be replaced. This was never passed on to me. Apparently the previous owner couldn't get the generator to run (2 year old boat with only 27 hours on the generator) and he ran the batteries down past 60% a couple times. I was told this will shorten the life of AGM batteries. So I can't top them off as they are sealed. I can check myself, but I trust my guy. He says they should last 5-6 years and three is short but I don't know how the previous owner handled them. I'm gonna look up the battery model and manufacturer and see what kind of warranty they have. If it's 4 years I may get it covered. I'll keep everyone updated.


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Everything you say sounds legit from afar. AGMs? Shame, as they are pretty much the best you can get, by and large. But the estimate of 5 to 6 as an outside with 3 or so given a patchy history and deep discharges checks out to me.
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Old 29-05-2015, 14:26   #42
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Re: Battery life

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Ok, so a slight update. I haven't been to the boat but I called my repair guy and I have AGM batteries, a bank of 5.

Implies 5x 12V batteries, yes?

He said he checked them about 6 months ago and sent a recommendation to the broker who helped me purchase the boat, that they weren't holding a charge and needed to be replaced. This was never passed on to me. Apparently the previous owner couldn't get the generator to run (2 year old boat with only 27 hours on the generator) and he ran the batteries down past 60% a couple times. I was told this will shorten the life of AGM batteries.

Most lead-acid batteries, including AGMs, last longest if not drawn down below 50% state of charge (SOC) before recharging. But "a couple times" shouldn't be a big deal. Our oldest AGM bank is coming into it's 10th season, and I've occasionally drawn then down lower than 50% SOC.

It may be "a couple times" but then exacerbated if the batteries weren't charged back up to 100% reasonably shortly thereafter.

So I can't top them off as they are sealed.

With water, you mean, yes?

I can check myself, but I trust my guy. He says they should last 5-6 years and three is short but I don't know how the previous owner handled them. I'm gonna look up the battery model and manufacturer and see what kind of warranty they have. If it's 4 years I may get it covered. I'll keep everyone updated.

If the 5x 12V assumption is correct, and these are used primarily for house loads... You might want to research threads here about 6V deep cycle golf cart batteries.

The short version is that 5x G31 12V batteries, for example, will give you about 500 Ah in the bank, 250 Ah usable (to 50% SOC).

Maybe 6x golf cart batteries would fit in the same physical space, pairs or 220 Ah each at 12V, for a total of maybe 660 Ah (and 330 Ah usable to 50% SOC). If you have room for the taller versions, 6x (3 pairs) could give you up to maybe 900 Ah in the same footprint.

There are implications throughout your electrical system, of course; charger size, for example.

Still, might be worth some research on your part, especially if you might have to replace the current batteries. Tons of threads here about 'em.

-Chris
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Old 29-05-2015, 16:09   #43
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Re: Battery life

Hopefully I'll get to the boat and check everything out this weekend. Thanks,

Rob
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Old 29-05-2015, 18:31   #44
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Re: Battery life

That bank of 5 is actually probably a bank of 4 and a starting battery. Jeanneau puts the engine starting battery with all the house batteries in the 44DS (under the master berth) so it looks like a bank of 5.


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Old 29-05-2015, 21:13   #45
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Re: Battery life

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulmitz View Post
Ok, so a slight update. I haven't been to the boat but I called my repair guy and I have AGM batteries, a bank of 5. He said he checked them about 6 months ago and sent a recommendation to the broker who helped me purchase the boat, that they weren't holding a charge and needed to be replaced. This was never passed on to me. Apparently the previous owner couldn't get the generator to run (2 year old boat with only 27 hours on the generator) and he ran the batteries down past 60% a couple times. I was told this will shorten the life of AGM batteries. So I can't top them off as they are sealed. I can check myself, but I trust my guy. He says they should last 5-6 years and three is short but I don't know how the previous owner handled them. I'm gonna look up the battery model and manufacturer and see what kind of warranty they have. If it's 4 years I may get it covered. I'll keep everyone updated.


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Its not years they last so much as charge cycles. The manufacturer will have a little graph somewhere of expected cycles versus Depth of Discharge. See the end of this post.

So its how you use the batteries - if your batteries are good for 1000 cycles @ 50% and you use the boat on weekends during the summer in New England you can easily get 5-6 years if you charge carefully. If you live on board at anchor for 365 days a year you can blow past that 1000 cycles in three years and it really isn't a short life for the batteries based on the manufacturer specs.

Going down past 60% a couple of times shouldn't kill your battery life, 50% is the magic number most people look at for charge cycles, as lower than that the charge cycles expected tend to plummet on most batteries.

It is possible the batteries have been consistently under or over charged, and/or have some sulphation. Some AGM's can take an equalization which can bring some life back after sulphation. Also many AGMs really like to be brought to a full charge periodically, which shouldn't be a problem if you are in a slip.

From what you describe it sounds like there is surface charging going on - the voltage is being raised by the charge process but you aren't putting a lot of Amps back into the batteries since the voltage rises quickly and the charger backs off charging accordingly. This can be caused by a high internal resistance, a fancy name for "your batteries are probably toast".

You should have a decent battery monitor. I have two of the Balmar Smart Gauges on board. The jury is still out on them IMHO, I don't think they are reporting accurately and am awaiting a response from Balmar support on how to set it for my new batteries. Note this device is bought by Balmar from a company called Merlin and Balmar sends support requests on to Merlin.

Battery monitoring is a whole 'nother topic.

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