Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-04-2009, 12:54   #31
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle area (Bremerton)
Boat: C&C Landfall 39 center cockpit "Anahita"
Posts: 1,076
Images: 6
Monitor your equipment

The missing piece is a good monitor. You can read the manuals for your charger(s) to discover just how to vary the voltge(s) to suit your needs yet you need a good battery monitor which also monitors just what your sources are doing. By reading other threads under Electrical: Batteries by using your monitor you can determine how the internal resistance of your bank is doing and how the charge acceptance is changing (if at all).

Once you become comfortable with the concepts and methodology you will establish a charge/discharge cycle and just what should be done by you and what gets done automatically. You will discover that if your charge sources deliver the correct voltages for the correct times then you will be able to merely keep track of what is going on and relax.
__________________

__________________
"I don't think there'll be a return journey Mr. Frodo". Samwise Gamgee
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2009, 13:06   #32
...

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Currently NZ
Boat: Buizen 48
Posts: 279
Thanks for that.

Any opions on my equipment choices which I mentioned?what
__________________

__________________
BlueSovereign is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2009, 15:21   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle area (Bremerton)
Boat: C&C Landfall 39 center cockpit "Anahita"
Posts: 1,076
Images: 6
voltage settability

Be careful to check (if you have not yet bought) that your shore charger or alternator regulator can allow the user to set the upper voltage range well above 14.4V. 14.6V is a minimum, in my opinion. Check to see just how easy it is to make such changes.

Usually you can "lie" to the charger by telling it to use flooded-cell settings and very low temperatures in order to get the acceptance settings up. It depends upon what the manufacturer allows the user to do. One then might (when entering float) have to revert to the AGM or a gel setting to get a good 13.7-13.9V foat value. Even then it is O.K. to float at a flooded-cell setting around 13.3 with AGMs or gel-cells as long as you periodically re-enter an acceptance cycle to check for how much charge acceptance current the battery exhibits. If a previous charge cycle properly recovered lost capacity then the battery will not charge accept much current.

The two revealing factors here are to check for the internal resistance of the battery (delta-V divided by delta-I) for both charge acceptance as well as heavy inverter load discharges. It is difficult for most people to understand that a full battery just will not charge accept much current when you subject it momentarily to a high voltage. The difference between a sulphated (like a dead AGM) battery that will not charge accept current and a good one is that the dead one will not deliver heavy load current...easy to check with an inverter heating up a cup of water.
__________________
"I don't think there'll be a return journey Mr. Frodo". Samwise Gamgee
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2009, 17:51   #34
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,055
Rick, have you seen:
Large Pulse Resistance

Aside from the drawback of needing to be affixed up close to the battery...an interesting concept?
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2009, 20:15   #35
Registered User
 
quidam's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cincinnati, OH (for now)
Boat: custom built 47' wooden trawler yacht
Posts: 71
Send a message via Skype™ to quidam
wich regulator?

Rick, I have not yet purchased an external regulator and was hoping you could tell me what you think is the best one. My alternator is a large case electrodyne that is rated at 125 amps @ 24 volts, and it is setup for an external regulator.
__________________
Quidam (pronounced "key-DAHM"; IPA: /kiːˈdɑːm/) means "a certain one" -or- "a certain thing", "an anonymous passerby" in Classical Latin
*****
One must be constantly on guard against advocates of the "Be reasonable and do it the hard and expensive way" school of thought.

That type of elitist thinking has ballooned the cost of boats, and cruising , far beyond what it need be, and beyond the reach of too many low income cruisers, for no benefit. --Brent Swain
quidam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2009, 16:30   #36
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Corpus Christi Texas
Boat: boatless atm
Posts: 723
Send a message via MSN to bobfnbw
Rick,
Going with a 600ah bank of odyssey batteries at 100ah each.
Will increase to 800 at some time in the future, maybe next time batteries are changed out.
Need to replace my alternator, inverter charger, and batteries due to a flood in the boat. All are shot.

What I would like to know is what equipment is best to MAXIMIZE these types of batteries. Currently I have balmar 100 amp alternator, and a prosine 75amp charger.
Was going to change to the victron multiplus 120 amp inverter/charger, and as large of a alternator as I can, probably a 160 or 210 amp balmar or electrodyne.
The goal of course would be to recharge at the most rate these batteries are capaple of, reducing run time on engine.

If I understand you correctly, with these types of batteries, I could charge at 33% of battery bank, which would equal ~ 200 amps. How do I get this type of charging current into the batteries. Not much out there that delivers that kind of current.
What would you use ?
Any input is appreciated.
Thanks
bob
__________________
bobfnbw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2009, 19:21   #37
Registered User
 
Extemporaneous's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Boat: Corbin 39 Special Edition
Posts: 909
Amp-hour law charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobfnbw View Post
Rick,
The goal of course would be to recharge at the most rate these batteries are capaple of, reducing run time on engine.

If I understand you correctly, with these types of batteries, I could charge at 33% of battery bank, which would equal ~ 200 amps. How do I get this type of charging current into the batteries. Not much out there that delivers that kind of current.
What would you use ?
Any input is appreciated.
Thanks
bob
I think Rick's got you covered already. Post 1 through 16 of this thread will get you there.

Extemp.
__________________
Extemporaneous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2009, 19:22   #38
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,055
"How do I get this type of charging current into the batteries. "
A whopping big alternator. Or, two 100+ Amp alternators, belted up on opposite sides of the engine so they also even out the load on the shaft bearing. If you have the space for it--there's a lot to be said for dual alternators. In any case, make sure they are rated for continuous output at the power you intend to draw from them.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 12:05   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle area (Bremerton)
Boat: C&C Landfall 39 center cockpit "Anahita"
Posts: 1,076
Images: 6
Large pulse technology

Hellosailor, yes I've looked into such technology and rejected the concept due to the inherent problem of generating EMI and RFI that would wipe out SSB reception on a cruising boat. In other applications there is still the problem of not being able to ever meet agency requirements in EU or other countries for EMI and RFI. In addition, short term resistance values do not match up with longer time measurements due to electrolyte starvation near the plates at high currents and long times which do not show up with short pulse measurements.

With a good battery monitor one can better determine resistance for your application by measuring delta V and delta I when using a microwave/inverter, for example. This could be done automatically yet such development was stopped when I was working at Xantrex. Boo-hoo1

Regarding high output alternators, keep in mind that two small frame high output alternators (90-100A) will not be as reliable or efficient as one 190A large frame alternator. The large frame alternators have much more volume with which to accommodate magnetic flux saturation of the field, better cooling and bearings that are about 4 times "stronger" than those of small frame alternators. All this with only 1 inch increase in diameter. Small frame alternators that put out 120-150A are way overstressed in my opinion.
__________________
"I don't think there'll be a return journey Mr. Frodo". Samwise Gamgee
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 14:13   #40
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,055
Rick, I appreciate that large frame alternators, or simply higher capacity alternators, have their advantages. The problem is that on a retrofit, let's face it, there are limits of space and of course limits of the single v-belt. Dual belts are a nice way to guarantee permanent employment at the alternator shop or garage, and ribbed belts can mean changing the flywheel and visiting a machinist.

What I really want is to get Reddy Kilowatt in a dark alley one night and ask him why the pint-sized nuke he promised me in the 50's hasn't come onto the home market yet. (Well, aside from some thousand or so small strontium piles that seem to have disappeared from the old USSR.)
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 18:10   #41
Registered User
 
Beausoleil's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Potomac Shores, VA USA
Boat: Formosa 51 Aft Cockpit Ketch - "Beausoleil"
Posts: 565
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post

What I really want is to get Reddy Kilowatt in a dark alley one night and ask him why the pint-sized nuke he promised me in the 50's hasn't come onto the home market yet. (Well, aside from some thousand or so small strontium piles that seem to have disappeared from the old USSR.)
Reddy Kilowatt went green and is now working for Panasonic... And Toshiba will have something, but it's a bit larger than just a single-home unit.

I want one on my boat.
__________________
Cap'n Jon (KB1HTW)
S/V Beausoleil -1979 Formosa 51 Ketch
"If it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there." - Captain Ron
Beausoleil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2009, 21:23   #42
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,055
Me too!

Now I've found a reason to buy "too much boat" so there will be room for that powerplant.

Interesting that it is made by Toshiba, since the Japanese wouldn't let you sail into the country if you had one on your boat!
__________________

__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battery

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Outboard Battery Charging II goodrun11 Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 6 02-09-2009 23:02
Gel and AGM Charging Voltages HowardZ Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 16 22-04-2009 06:49
Battery Charging Issue Labatt Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 6 22-02-2009 15:19
Battery Charging time Hankthelank Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 3 04-12-2008 21:47
Battery selection and charging mestrezat Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 18 08-07-2008 22:03



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:05.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.