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Old 09-08-2014, 09:20   #76
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Re: Baqon drop-in LiFePo battery systems with BMS

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Yep!!!!! With Balmar you cut REGULATOR B+, not field....
Maine,

I've seen you say this a few times. By "B+" I think you mean the RED Power/Sense wire, but I wonder if it isn't better to cut the BROWN Ignition wire. My understanding is that RED is intended to be a permanent connection, while BROWN is for switched voltage to control the regulator.

Also, just to muddy the water a little bit, the MC-624 manual does say on Page 5 in the Small Engine Mode section that it is acceptable to cut the BLUE Field wire.

Can you clarify your statement and reasoning?
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Old 09-08-2014, 09:53   #77
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Re: Baqon drop-in LiFePo battery systems with BMS

Confusion in boat wiring...that can't be...ha ha

I'm working with Mark Grasser on this project who also is the manufacturer of the DC Power Solutions Alternators and I have his 100A installed on our Lehman 120 engine. (ofcourse I do....I'm the Western US Distributer for them) Looking at the wiring this morning, I am using the voltage sense wire for the cut out NOT the ignition wire but heck...I'm not saying it wouldn't be better to use the ignition wire. Another question for Grasser on monday.

I've also had a switch in the field wire now for...oh...6yrs to turn the alternator off when motoring and doing the HF radio nets to quite the noise on two different boat with two different altrnators and not had a problem. So is this one of those there is a Technical "Right Way" (cutting the power/ignition) but the "wrong way" (cutting the field) doesn't hurt anything?
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Old 09-08-2014, 19:56   #78
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Baqon drop-in LiFePo battery systems with BMS

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Originally Posted by CharlieJ View Post

...

Disconnecting the alternator output from the battery bank will probably destroy the diode pack in the alternator. That is why we don't use that


Nope it will not, as long as you still have a LA starter battery connected. The LA battery will dampen out the "spike" to let the controller settle in.

I am doing just that - disconnecting all ALL charge sources via solenoid on four boats triggered by a voltmeter with integrated high and low voltage trigger relays HVC at 13.8V LVC at 12.0V. The simplest charge controller there is. We have solar, alternator, and shore charger connected to the charge bus.

This is just like the old BOTH-START-HOUSE or BOTH-1-2 battery switch. No harm done to the alternator when you switch that one.


Rolf
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Old 09-08-2014, 20:07   #79
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Re: Baqon drop-in LiFePo battery systems with BMS

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Nope it will not, as long as you still have a LA starter battery connected. The LA battery will dampen out the "spike" to let the controller settle in.

I am doing just that - disconnecting all ALL charge sources via solenoid on four boats triggered by a voltmeter with integrated high and low voltage trigger relays HVC at 13.8V LVC at 12.0V. The simplest charge controller there is. We have solar, alternator, and shore charger connected to the charge bus.

This is just like the old BOTH-START-HOUSE or BOTH-1-2 battery switch. No harm done to the alternator when you switch that one.


Rolf
Rolf....It's great to hear about your ultimate KISS set-up!
Can you share a little about your set-up, bank size, etc? I'd really appreciate hearing about your experienes and how you are pulling it off.
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Old 10-08-2014, 03:51   #80
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Re: Baqon drop-in LiFePo battery systems with BMS

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Originally Posted by roetter View Post
Nope it will not, as long as you still have a LA starter battery connected. The LA battery will dampen out the "spike" to let the controller settle in.

I am doing just that - disconnecting all ALL charge sources via solenoid on four boats triggered by a voltmeter with integrated high and low voltage trigger relays HVC at 13.8V LVC at 12.0V. The simplest charge controller there is. We have solar, alternator, and shore charger connected to the charge bus.

This is just like the old BOTH-START-HOUSE or BOTH-1-2 battery switch. No harm done to the alternator when you switch that one.


Rolf
What about when you don't have any battery connected? I have two alts. One to the starter lead battery and one alt output alt to house lithium. It looks to me that the B+ on the Balmar alt is the output cable - it must surely not be disconnected at high output without a load on it. Please explain if I am wrong?
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Old 10-08-2014, 09:49   #81
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Re: Baqon drop-in LiFePo battery systems with BMS

"Drop in LiFePO4".....yep....doesn't this just show that to be a myth, but the truth is there is no real such thing as a Drop in Lead Acid battery anyway....so why all the fuss and demand that the new technology be something that even the old technology isn't....which is "drop In". Drop in is a Myth is a false goal my friends. What other system on your boat is "drop In" anyway and if it is....those are the systems we all want to upgrade to something better anyway right?

I dont have experience with a dual salt system, but in this case without the LA battery to take the spike, it would seem logical that you would need a relay to cut off the alts ignition wire before cutting the output.
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Old 13-08-2014, 23:39   #82
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Re: Baqon drop-in LiFePo battery systems with BMS

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Rolf....It's great to hear about your ultimate KISS set-up!
Can you share a little about your set-up, bank size, etc? I'd really appreciate hearing about your experienes and how you are pulling it off.
The screen shot shows the schematic of how I installed the LiFePo systems on two long term crusing catamarans. Each are 1400Ah at "12V".

Click image for larger version

Name:	KISS LiFePo.png
Views:	538
Size:	105.1 KB
ID:	86594

The JLD5740 from Light Object is a programmable volt meter with two built in relays for high and low voltage each with programmable hysteresis.

The Junsi cell log is used for convenient checking of individual cell voltages, delta-V, and triggering the alarm buzzer.

I also did two smaller installs on two monos (360AH at "12V").

A friend of mine wanted to go really simple. Just added a Blue Seas latching solenoid driven through a 12V automotive relay by his existing Link10 low voltage alarm.
We tested the alternator an it never raised the LiFePo voltage above 14.05V, even on 10-hour motor runs starting from almost full (less than 50Ah down). So no changes done here either. His 4-year old existing shore charger was switched to 14.0V max. It is not usually plugged in when away from the boat.

He has so far 15 months on it. He just returned from his 4-week summer cruise. All is fine. His wife loves that she is allowed to use the inverter for the microwave anytime she wants now.
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Old 14-08-2014, 02:46   #83
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Re: Baqon drop-in LiFePo battery systems with BMS

I often have a laugh at those that feel the price of cells are coming down, be assured they are not, but rather old stock has always been available at a discount price.
Be very careful when buying any lithium cells that you carefully observe the CA rating used for the capacity testing. The game has been played for yrs with AGM and flooded cells, the better manufacturers used a standardised C20 rating but the rouges used C100 rates virtually falsifying their capacity at a higher figure than it really was.
Li manufacturers are no better, the standard is 0.5CA, 0.5 times the capacity in amps to a set cell voltage while under the 0.5CA load. There is another manufacturer who will remain nameless who tests at 0.1CA to a non loaded cell voltage, the 2 figures can not be used as a realistic comparison of the cell capacity, there is a in excess of a 10% difference between the 2 methods, or, a 90Ah cell tested by the second method would exceed 100Ah, a 360Ah cell would come up as a 400Ah cell, etc, divide the cell price by Ah and then correct the capacity so the 2 are on equal footing and the price difference soon evaporates, or even turns out to be more expensive than the quality cells.
It's still a buyer beware market place, check the age of the cells and the CA rating used for capacity measuring, an independent verification to test authenticity goes a long way as well :lol:

T1 Terry
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Old 14-08-2014, 10:36   #84
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Re: Baqon drop-in LiFePo battery systems with BMS

Let me first confess that I did something that I was warned against and should have known better than to do: I ordered 4 700Ah cells from Balqon. I know, dumb - but the free shipping and the fact that the cells were advertised as "in stock" suckered me in.

I ordered, got a confirmation email, had my credit card charged for the full amount - all good.

Fast forward more than five weeks, I can't get a response via phone messages or email when I might actually expect delivery.

Before I give up and call my credit card company, does anyone have an alternate contact or phone number at Balqon?

Also, I would be remiss if I did not thank the many generous minds who post here. You have my deepest respect and appreciation.
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Old 14-08-2014, 11:56   #85
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Re: Baqon drop-in LiFePo battery systems with BMS

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Let me first confess that I did something that I was warned against and should have known better than to do: I ordered 4 700Ah cells from Balqon. I know, dumb - but the free shipping and the fact that the cells were advertised as "in stock" suckered me in.

I ordered, got a confirmation email, had my credit card charged for the full amount - all good.

Fast forward more than five weeks, I can't get a response via phone messages or email when I might actually expect delivery.

Before I give up and call my credit card company, does anyone have an alternate contact or phone number at Balqon?

Also, I would be remiss if I did not thank the many generous minds who post here. You have my deepest respect and appreciation.
I did warn in a previous message that they did the same to me over a warranty issue. Still total silence months later. I have given up and admitted defeat. Turn up in person and hand cash for the loot. That's the only way I'd play it. I'll bet you will get a cash discount too.
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Old 14-08-2014, 11:59   #86
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Re: Baqon drop-in LiFePo battery systems with BMS

There may be a link in this thread, or else contact senormechanico.
Waiting, Waiting, Waiting for Lithium from Balqon...
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Old 14-08-2014, 11:59   #87
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Re: Baqon drop-in LiFePo battery systems with BMS

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I did warn in a previous message that they did the same to me over a warranty issue. Still total silence months later. I have given up and admitted defeat. Turn up in person and hand cash for the loot. That's the only way I'd play it. I'll bet you will get a cash discount too.
Too bad they're on the other side of the continent. At least I used a credit card and have some recourse.
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Old 14-08-2014, 12:02   #88
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Re: Baqon drop-in LiFePo battery systems with BMS

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Originally Posted by roetter View Post
The screen shot shows the schematic of how I installed the LiFePo systems on two long term crusing catamarans. Each are 1400Ah at "12V".

Attachment 86594

The JLD5740 from Light Object is a programmable volt meter with two built in relays for high and low voltage each with programmable hysteresis.

The Junsi cell log is used for convenient checking of individual cell voltages, delta-V, and triggering the alarm buzzer.

I also did two smaller installs on two monos (360AH at "12V").

A friend of mine wanted to go really simple. Just added a Blue Seas latching solenoid driven through a 12V automotive relay by his existing Link10 low voltage alarm.
We tested the alternator an it never raised the LiFePo voltage above 14.05V, even on 10-hour motor runs starting from almost full (less than 50Ah down). So no changes done here either. His 4-year old existing shore charger was switched to 14.0V max. It is not usually plugged in when away from the boat.

He has so far 15 months on it. He just returned from his 4-week summer cruise. All is fine. His wife loves that she is allowed to use the inverter for the microwave anytime she wants now.
You don't have a way to disconnect the chargers on a LVC event. Aren't you concerned they might drain the batteries over maybe a long period when you are away or if one of them goes doolally and consumes excessive power it might kill off your batteries quickly, maybe overnight?
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Old 14-08-2014, 15:43   #89
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Re: Baqon drop-in LiFePo battery systems with BMS

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You don't have a way to disconnect the chargers on a LVC event. Aren't you concerned they might drain the batteries over maybe a long period when you are away or if one of them goes doolally and consumes excessive power it might kill off your batteries quickly, maybe overnight?
A simple diode in one of the cables would eliminate that problem, but if the system is connected to mains then the charging system would kick in at the 13.4v mark and top the system back up. A good mains charger has separate voltage sensing that connects directly to the target battery, the diodes would not effect the charging voltage. The last thing you would want to do is disconnect the charging source on a low voltage event.

T1 Terry
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Old 14-08-2014, 21:48   #90
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Re: Baqon drop-in LiFePo battery systems with BMS

It is unfortunate, but not a surprise, as I've warned of their business status,
and didn't do it again in this thread cuz some people just don't like it when someone points out things they don't want to hear..
Another clear warning is this new 'drop in' product is NOT in stock on the online store, how can they announce a new product and not have any to sell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary H View Post
Let me first confess that I did something that I was warned against and should have known better than to do: I ordered 4 700Ah cells from Balqon. I know, dumb - but the free shipping and the fact that the cells were advertised as "in stock" suckered me in.

I ordered, got a confirmation email, had my credit card charged for the full amount - all good.

Fast forward more than five weeks, I can't get a response via phone messages or email when I might actually expect delivery.

Before I give up and call my credit card company, does anyone have an alternate contact or phone number at Balqon?

Also, I would be remiss if I did not thank the many generous minds who post here. You have my deepest respect and appreciation.
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