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Old 27-05-2019, 08:08   #1
er9
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Balmar SG200/ old Raritan charger

Curious...i want to install an SG200 battery monitor but still have an old 1980 era Raritan Crown Royal charger in my boat.

I'm not sure how it compares and probably falls short in performance from modern chargers but still seems to work perfectly fine.

that being said...would i be better off waiting to install the SG200 until i get a better charger installed or should it still work fine with my old Raritan and sporadic charging cycle?

What i mean by sporadic is that i have no idea my battery SOC. There is an ancient 1980 voltmeter on my distribution panel that does not read the same volts that my multi tester reads at the terminals. So when i think the batteries are getting low, couple evenings a week, i manually turn on the charger on for a couple of hours.


Would the SG200 be capable of learning my battery health, SOC etc...with this type of charging arrangement?
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Old 27-05-2019, 08:28   #2
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Re: Balmar SG200/ old Raritan charger

There should be no reason not to install the battery monitor. The battery charger and monitor don't have anything to do with how the other works.
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Old 27-05-2019, 08:39   #3
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Re: Balmar SG200/ old Raritan charger

+1

the BM neither knows nor cares, it's all just V&A
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Old 27-05-2019, 09:14   #4
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Re: Balmar SG200/ old Raritan charger

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Originally Posted by Tornadosailing View Post
There should be no reason not to install the battery monitor. The battery charger and monitor don't have anything to do with how the other works.
ok good to know. i wasnt sure if the accuracy of the monitor was determined by and required the predictable regularity of a modern programmed charger.
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Old 28-05-2019, 11:20   #5
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Re: Balmar SG200/ old Raritan charger

Quote:
Originally Posted by er9 View Post
Curious...i want to install an SG200 battery monitor but still have an old 1980 era Raritan Crown Royal charger in my boat.

I'm not sure how it compares and probably falls short in performance from modern chargers but still seems to work perfectly fine.

that being said...would i be better off waiting to install the SG200 until i get a better charger installed or should it still work fine with my old Raritan and sporadic charging cycle?

What i mean by sporadic is that i have no idea my battery SOC. There is an ancient 1980 voltmeter on my distribution panel that does not read the same volts that my multi tester reads at the terminals. So when i think the batteries are getting low, couple evenings a week, i manually turn on the charger on for a couple of hours.


Would the SG200 be capable of learning my battery health, SOC etc...with this type of charging arrangement?

I have recently installed a SG200 (along with 4 new FireFly batteries) and the answers above are correct the smart shunt cares not. It will, over 3 or 4 cycles assess your battery bank and report the SOH.



The smart shunt is programmable to your battery chemistry, a nice feature over the original smart gauge



However, one thing I am noticing is that the SOC goes to 100% before my Smart Charger changes to a float charge. This could be the start battery still needing additional charge (it is on the batt 2 of the charger). I plan to investigate this more as I find time and inclination.


So far I am very please with the SG200 and have order the Bluetooth option for the smart phone.


Jim
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Old 28-05-2019, 12:29   #6
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Re: Balmar SG200/ old Raritan charger

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The smart shunt is programmable to your battery chemistry, a nice feature over the original smart gauge
Note that was a Merlin product, designed by Gibbo. Which did have a batt chemistry selector.

No direct relationship between SmartGauge and this SG-200, which was designed inhouse at Balmar.

> However, one thing I am noticing is that the SOC goes to 100% before my Smart Charger changes to a float charge.

The canonical measure is tapering amps as a C-rate. The charger going longer is better than chronically too soon,
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Old 28-05-2019, 14:29   #7
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Re: Balmar SG200/ old Raritan charger

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Note that was a Merlin product, designed by Gibbo. Which did have a batt chemistry selector.

No direct relationship between SmartGauge and this SG-200, which was designed inhouse at Balmar.

> However, one thing I am noticing is that the SOC goes to 100% before my Smart Charger changes to a float charge.

The canonical measure is tapering amps as a C-rate. The charger going longer is better than chronically too soon,

John,


Thanks, I stand corrected the Smartgauge did have a chemistry selector for AGM, liquid, gel.


The SG200 has a setting for the FireFly Carbon Foam Batteries. Which, if I understand correctly, allows for a deeper discharges (maybe 80%?) in the calculations of SOH. This is a total assumption on how the smart shunt works with battery chemistry.


On the charge rate, I agree that later is better then sooner. However, the charge continues at aprox. 20 amps and tapering for several hours after the SG200 hits 100%. I have only cycled the new batteries a few times and down to maybe 80% SOC. So the SG200 might adjust over time to correspond better with the ProNautic smart charger. We will see.


Jim
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Old 28-05-2019, 15:58   #8
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Re: Balmar SG200/ old Raritan charger

Yes it can take dozens of proper cycles to learn better, to or below 50%.

The DoD factor should be independent of chemistry, whether suited to deeper cycling or not
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Old 28-05-2019, 16:31   #9
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Re: Balmar SG200/ old Raritan charger

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Yes it can take dozens of proper cycles to learn better, to or below 50%.

.....
Where are you getting this requirement? Balmar does not state how many cycles of what type is required. I'm pretty sure you haven't tested one.
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Old 29-05-2019, 03:03   #10
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Re: Balmar SG200/ old Raritan charger

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Originally Posted by jhulmer View Post
However, one thing I am noticing is that the SOC goes to 100% before my Smart Charger changes to a float charge.
Jim
What have you set your taper current to in "advanced settings" in SG200?
If it isn't the same as your smart charger then that is possibly why.

Default (leaving advanced ) is 0.2C for FLA, which isn't 100% SOC either.
Balmar recommends 0.2-0.4C for FLA.
They do talk about incrementally adjusting it (taper current) to repeatable numbers checked with capacity tests or SG's. (Something like that anyway.)
If I have to set my taper current to 0.2C to get valid soc's and charge to 0.1C then thats a bit silly.
Still learning here and I don't have time to do enough cycles only adjusting one thing at a time. More to this gismo than meets the eye. Bling, or not?
I'm pretty sure if I set it up as recommended the gauge would reflect satisfying numbers but I may not believe them.

The manual sayes to setup "what you think" is 100%.
Kinda user definable, sort of, when you can't be bother charging anymore.
rofl...very convenient.

There is something decidedly freudian about your charger switching to float and the SG clicking over to double zero's simultaneously.
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Old 29-05-2019, 04:18   #11
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Re: Balmar SG200/ old Raritan charger

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The manual says to setup "what you think" is 100%.
Kinda user definable, sort of, when you can't be bother charging anymore.
rofl...very convenient.
Fact is, the specific endAmps termination point not only

is not how most charge sources work, needs to be AHT adjusted, calibrated to changing conditions, only approximate

varies by vendor / model

gets a lot harder as SoH declines

may not be possible in certain conditions

can vary by user preference, e.g. fear of overcharging



> There is something decidedly freudian about your charger switching to float and the SG clicking over to double zero's simultaneously

would only happen that precisely if charger were controlled by the BM.


> If I have to set my taper current to 0.2C to get valid soc's and charge to 0.1C then thats a bit silly.

Yes I would prefer the other way around.
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Old 29-05-2019, 07:00   #12
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Re: Balmar SG200/ old Raritan charger

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What have you set your taper current to in "advanced settings" in SG200?
If it isn't the same as your smart charger then that is possibly why.

Default (leaving advanced ) is 0.2C for FLA, which isn't 100% SOC either.
Balmar recommends 0.2-0.4C for FLA.
They do talk about incrementally adjusting it (taper current) to repeatable numbers checked with capacity tests or SG's. (Something like that anyway.)
If I have to set my taper current to 0.2C to get valid soc's and charge to 0.1C then thats a bit silly.
Still learning here and I don't have time to do enough cycles only adjusting one thing at a time. More to this gismo than meets the eye. Bling, or not?
I'm pretty sure if I set it up as recommended the gauge would reflect satisfying numbers but I may not believe them.

The manual sayes to setup "what you think" is 100%.
Kinda user definable, sort of, when you can't be bother charging anymore.
rofl...very convenient.

There is something decidedly freudian about your charger switching to float and the SG clicking over to double zero's simultaneously.

LOL. I guess it was a fantasy to think it would switch at the same time. I think that within an hour is not unrealistic. Like I said, this will probably change as I go through a few more cycles.



I left the taper current set to default which is preset by the chemistry algorithm.


One of the reasons I chose FireFlys is that I don't have to stress over 100% state of charge. As we know for other chemistries, except LFP, Partial states of charge will reduce the battery capacity over time.



This from the manual is all that is required for settings and is easy for a new battery bank:


The CONFIG menu has the options listed below:


CAPACITY Set the battery capacity in Ah

CHARGING Configure charging parameters

ALERTS Configure ALERT thresholds


BAT TYPE - Selecting the Battery Chemistry The SG200 uses profiles for each common battery chemistry. It is important to select the chemistry that most closely represents the batteries being monitored. All batteries on the bank being monitored by the SmartShunt should be the same size, age and chemistry. If they are not, the SG200 may not present accurate information.


It gets trickier with an older battery bank that the Ah capacity is unknown. However, Rodd of Compass Marine says that within 6 or less cycles the SG-200 will reach an accurate assessment within 1 to 5% SOH.


It is truly a set it and leave it battery monitoring system and for that a game changer.



BTW: This is a good explanation of how Rodd tested the SG-200 and his assessment.


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Old 29-05-2019, 11:14   #13
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Re: Balmar SG200/ old Raritan charger

Agree with the consensus on OP's setup.

Correction above, stick a zero between decimal & number , long day.
0.02-0.04C (2-4%)C


"I left the taper current set to default which is preset by the chemistry algorithm."
Curious to know what that is, if you can be bothered going to advanced?
Also total Ahrs of your bank? I'm keen on going FF.


"It gets trickier with an older battery bank that the Ah capacity is unknown. However, Rodd of Compass Marine says that within 6 or less cycles the SG-200 will reach an accurate assessment within 1 to 5% SOH."

My SOH hit a believable number right off the bat. (90%) 4yro bats.
SOC is out of whack still though.
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Old 29-05-2019, 17:01   #14
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Re: Balmar SG200/ old Raritan charger

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I have recently installed a SG200 (along with 4 new FireFly batteries)
Jim
G31's?
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Old 26-06-2019, 15:26   #15
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Re: Balmar SG200/ old Raritan charger

Hello,

Do you know what the dimensions are of the Raritan battery charger? Is it a Raritan Crown B II Series charger? I would like to know the Width (Including Mounting Feet), Height, and Depth.

Thank you
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