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Old 31-03-2016, 09:00   #1
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Australian company has released a 10kw flow battery

https://www.zcell.com/


*able to be 100% discharged with no effects
*can be hibernated in any charge state
*compact for its storage capacity, requires no special charging profiles (unlike Lifepo batteries)
*not susceptible to thermal runaway



*possible downside that I can see is that it wont charge over 45 deg C *currently, quite expensive at around AUD$17k for 10kw

Reading through the press release, I don't see why there can't be a marine application.
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Old 31-03-2016, 10:23   #2
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Re: Australian company has released a 10kw flow battery

The biggest issue I see with it for use on small pleasure craft ( any under about 100 ft / 30 meter) would be as I read it their smallest weighing 240 kg that's quite a bit unless it could be integrated as ballast during construction.
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Old 31-03-2016, 11:14   #3
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Re: Australian company has released a 10kw flow battery

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
The biggest issue I see with it for use on small pleasure craft ( any under about 100 ft / 30 meter) would be as I read it their smallest weighing 240 kg that's quite a bit unless it could be integrated as ballast during construction.
That isn't really that heavy compared to what I would expect to see in most 50' boats actually. It's on the high end, but five 110lbs batteries isn't that unusual. My question is how would you move a monolithic 250kg battery into place.
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Old 31-03-2016, 11:48   #4
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Re: Australian company has released a 10kw flow battery

Greg the weight of a single unit is the reason I was thinking it would need to be integrated in the build.
On smaller craft. Boats over 60 ft/20 meters are more likely to have tackle installed/access available to move that much weight as a single item easily
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Old 31-03-2016, 12:21   #5
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Re: Australian company has released a 10kw flow battery

That 17k cost looks to be two zcells, an inverter, installation, and an optional "export control box". If I'm estimating correctly, that should put a single cell at around 5k.

Matt

EDIT: That's a single cell plus extras for 17k, not two.
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Old 31-03-2016, 16:15   #6
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Re: Australian company has released a 10kw flow battery

According to their website they haven't "released" it yet.

"Reading through the press release, I don't see why there can't be a marine application." that's the funny thing about press releases, they rarely tell you what the product in NOT suitable for, nor do they point out any generic limitations which would limit use.

Also, I don't see anything on the site about the number of duty cycles, just this:
"Expectation of retaining the full output capacity over the useful life of the battery"
IOW, it looks as though one day, they will just stop working completely with no warning, and at this stage we have no idea how long they will last.
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Old 01-04-2016, 10:46   #7
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Re: Australian company has released a 10kw flow battery

Very nice. I have two generators, one is 20kW and the other is 16kW. I NEVER use 10kW at any time!! So my generation capability is way too much. If these prove to be reliable, I'll put one of them in as a replacement for a generator and my huge house bank of batteries (they alone weigh total 1500 pounds) when the time comes, regularly using the smaller deck generator that I already have that's way more efficient than my big gensets.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cards26 View Post
https://www.zcell.com/


*able to be 100% discharged with no effects
*can be hibernated in any charge state
*compact for its storage capacity, requires no special charging profiles (unlike Lifepo batteries)
*not susceptible to thermal runaway



*possible downside that I can see is that it wont charge over 45 deg C *currently, quite expensive at around AUD$17k for 10kw

Reading through the press release, I don't see why there can't be a marine application.
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Old 01-04-2016, 12:24   #8
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Re: Australian company has released a 10kw flow battery

It is based on Zinc-bromine chemistry, which has very specific properties. Not necessarily a good choice for usage patterns seen on a boat.

Wikipedia provides a good summary and there are a few scientific papers turned by a quick Google search.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc%E...romine_battery
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Old 01-04-2016, 18:28   #9
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Re: Australian company has released a 10kw flow battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
That isn't really that heavy compared to what I would expect to see in most 50' boats actually. It's on the high end, but five 110lbs batteries isn't that unusual. My question is how would you move a monolithic 250kg battery into place.
Just looking at the specs:

"Technical Specifications
Power Capacity: 3kW (5kW peak)

Dimensions
845 L x 823 H x 400 W (mm)
33 L x 32 H x 16 W (in)

Weight
240kg (530lb) with electrolyte
90kg (198lb) without electrolyte
Electrolyte volume 100L (26gal)"

Perhaps it can be installed dry at 90kg and the 100 litres of electrolyte added afterwards?
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Old 01-04-2016, 21:58   #10
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Re: Australian company has released a 10kw flow battery

There's a mate of mine here in Australia who makes up custom dry batteries to order - I believe the ingredients come as powder in bags - Korean product. High spec. to the level some are being used to drive underground mining equipment. The advantage though is they can be moulded to any shape.
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Old 02-04-2016, 04:13   #11
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Re: Australian company has released a 10kw flow battery

At 75.9% efficiency (Wikipedia), I don't think I would want them. They do have some advantages that may appeal to some though.
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Old 02-04-2016, 18:36   #12
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Re: Australian company has released a 10kw flow battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrm View Post
It is based on Zinc-bromine chemistry, which has very specific properties. Not necessarily a good choice for usage patterns seen on a boat.

Wikipedia provides a good summary and there are a few scientific papers turned by a quick Google search.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc%E...romine_battery
You are right, having to completely discharge every few days makes them unlikely candidates for use on cruising boats. Could be good for electric and hybrid boats used for short trips e.g. Fishing, whale watching, dinner cruises etc.
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Old 02-04-2016, 19:40   #13
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Re: Australian company has released a 10kw flow battery

The site is tough to navigate. Looks like its 48 volts. I don't think its ready for prime time. Interesting.
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Old 05-05-2016, 18:39   #14
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Re: Australian company has released a 10kw flow battery

I contacted them and they were totally not interested in Marine. Their primary market is land-based. They can't tolerate the idea of the liquids involved sloshing around

Quote:
Originally Posted by cards26 View Post
https://www.zcell.com/


*able to be 100% discharged with no effects
*can be hibernated in any charge state
*compact for its storage capacity, requires no special charging profiles (unlike Lifepo batteries)
*not susceptible to thermal runaway



*possible downside that I can see is that it wont charge over 45 deg C *currently, quite expensive at around AUD$17k for 10kw

Reading through the press release, I don't see why there can't be a marine application.
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