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Old 22-07-2014, 12:08   #61
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Re: Are Wind Generators even worth it?

Scott,
I think the point you are making, while valuable, isn't the isn't issue or problem being debated. It's not the general understanding and of how much power is available from the wind in 5kts, 15kts, or 25kts that is the problem.

What people's complaints about wind generators seem to be (unless I'm misreading this) is that the Claims of various wind generator companies are BullS#it. 15Amps as promised in "X" wind speed as promised in the glossy brochure isn't seen in real life. The M/S or Watt data compared to wind speed doesn't given turns out not to be a true real life "what you will see on the boat" number.

Exaggeration of the Amps vs wind speed seems to be the complain issue about wind generators, not the general understanding that there is a lot more power in 25kts of wind than in 10kts.
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Old 22-07-2014, 13:15   #62
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Re: Are Wind Generators even worth it?

that's kind of why I am asking the original question here. If I need to spend $500 to repair an AirX wind generator, would that money be better spent for 200 more watts of solar.

We have sun almost every day of the year, and winds consistently in the 10+ knot range. Year around. There are no calm days. It's sounding like the 200 watts of more solar is probably more cost effective for someone living here.

There are other reasons to dislike the wind generator, but I could put up with it if it was worth the money. Doesn't sound like it is. And no, if I hesitate to spend $ 500 on new blades and regulator, I most certainly am not interested in spending three times that on another wind generator.
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Old 22-07-2014, 13:19   #63
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Re: Are Wind Generators even worth it?

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Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
that's kind of why I am asking the original question here. If I need to spend $500 to repair an AirX wind generator, would that money be better spent for 200 more watts of solar.
Then I think it's an easy choice: Add more Solar vs. reparing an AirX.
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Old 22-07-2014, 13:48   #64
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You went from a few hundred to five hundred. You also didn't tell us how many watts of solar you have already. Like I said earlier I would have at least 400 watts of solar for a 400 amp hour battery bank. I would at least sand the blades smooth and if a regulator costs too much just use the wind generator when the batteries are low and set a timer so you don't forget to periodically check the voltage
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Old 22-07-2014, 13:48   #65
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Re: Are Wind Generators even worth it?

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Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
Most wind generators aren't even very efficient at capturing those 3ft. Imagine a wind generator which captures 30-50 square ft and has variable pitch blades. This also allows them to continue operating at max output in higher wind speeds without spinning too fast.

This generator would make 2kw from 15-60 knots, and still 200 watts at only 7 knots.

Now, you can use this wind generator to run the electric oven and stove, and in windy cold areas it would work to heat the boat and run a dehumidifier.

First a switch electrically brakes the turbine so it cannot spin. Second, the generator ( on a pole on the back of the boat) rotates so it can be lowered to the deck very easily. This is important for heavy weather anyway to lock it down and no longer have a wind generator which is a liability in those conditions. Now it is easy to switch between low/medium and high wind speed blades.
Sounds like a recipe to drop something way too expensive overboard.

To get clear wind, you need to be up high where the wind isn't disturbed by your boat and other boats, and any other typical obstructions. That means on too of your mast. If you aren't putting it up there, you are losing more watts than you are to blade pitch.


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Old 22-07-2014, 13:55   #66
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Re: Are Wind Generators even worth it?

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Scott,
I think the point you are making, while valuable, isn't the isn't issue or problem being debated. It's not the general understanding and of how much power is available from the wind in 5kts, 15kts, or 25kts that is the problem.

What people's complaints about wind generators seem to be (unless I'm misreading this) is that the Claims of various wind generator companies are BullS#it. 15Amps as promised in "X" wind speed as promised in the glossy brochure isn't seen in real life. The M/S or Watt data compared to wind speed doesn't given turns out not to be a true real life "what you will see on the boat" number.

Exaggeration of the Amps vs wind speed seems to be the complain issue about wind generators, not the general understanding that there is a lot more power in 25kts of wind than in 10kts.
They aren't exagerated, they are quote "perfect conditions" performance which is not real life. Like your car and the mileage you get. It's not the exactly the same as what the manufacturer say. How you drive and where makes a huge difference. Kinda why in my last couple of posts I mentioned the top of the mast which is where the highest quality wind will be found on your or any boat. It's only BS in the sense that real life isn't a spreadsheet.
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Old 22-07-2014, 13:58   #67
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Re: Are Wind Generators even worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
that's kind of why I am asking the original question here. If I need to spend $500 to repair an AirX wind generator, would that money be better spent for 200 more watts of solar.

We have sun almost every day of the year, and winds consistently in the 10+ knot range. Year around. There are no calm days. It's sounding like the 200 watts of more solar is probably more cost effective for someone living here.

There are other reasons to dislike the wind generator, but I could put up with it if it was worth the money. Doesn't sound like it is. And no, if I hesitate to spend $ 500 on new blades and regulator, I most certainly am not interested in spending three times that on another wind generator.

There is some comfort in have two different methods or sources of energy production. When one source is going sour, you have the other. When things are great, you are drawing surplus energy from both.

I am putting solar on my pilot house. I don't know about whether I will do wind or not...moving parts break. I haven't finished thinking it through.
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Old 22-07-2014, 14:13   #68
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Re: Are Wind Generators even worth it?

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Originally Posted by sparrowhawk1 View Post
You went from a few hundred to five hundred. You also didn't tell us how many watts of solar you have already. Like I said earlier I would have at least 400 watts of solar for a 400 amp hour battery bank. I would at least sand the blades smooth and if a regulator costs too much just use the wind generator when the batteries are low and set a timer so you don't forget to periodically check the voltage

That's a bad idea....if you forget you just fried your whole system, built up hydrogen and oxygen gas, and maybe blew up you and your boat... if you are lucky you just fried the battery bank...if you aren't so lucky...well...

You need a regulater and a dummy load to dump the spare electricity to prevent overcharging when the the system switches over. Bring a 12 volt battery to 16 volts and the insides will start boiling.
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Old 22-07-2014, 14:18   #69
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Re: Are Wind Generators even worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scot McPherson View Post
They aren't exagerated, they are quote "perfect conditions" performance which is not real life.


It's only BS in the sense that real life isn't a spreadsheet.
Scot....maybe you want to call that "not exagerated" but in the real world we call it like it is...BS. The wind gen companies know they can over-rate their units because when the amps vs wind speed results don't turn out to be true, they can says things like: "perfect conditions...which isn't real life"...ha ha ha. I've have now tested 6 wind generators and to say they are not full of BS in their output ratings vs wind speeds is...well....BS. Maybe I'll take this same BS approach and call my 20GPH water maker a 28GPH water maker and when clients called to complain just tell them: "Sorry amigo, our ideal conditions are not real life, thanks for your money, not go away and deal with it".
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Old 22-07-2014, 14:27   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scot McPherson View Post

That's a bad idea....if you forget you just fried your whole system, built up hydrogen and oxygen gas, and maybe blew up you and your boat... if you are lucky you just fried the battery bank...if you aren't so lucky...well...

You need a regulater and a dummy load to dump the spare electricity to prevent overcharging when the the system switches over. Bring a 12 volt battery to 16 volts and the insides will start boiling.
We're talking about a couple amps to maybe 15 amps max on a DISCHARGED battery bank. You'd have to be super careless to damage your battery
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Old 22-07-2014, 15:12   #71
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Re: Are Wind Generators even worth it?

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Scot....maybe you want to call that "not exagerated" but in the real world we call it like it is...BS. The wind gen companies know they can over-rate their units because when the amps vs wind speed results don't turn out to be true, they can says things like: "perfect conditions...which isn't real life"...ha ha ha. I've have now tested 6 wind generators and to say they are not full of BS in their output ratings vs wind speeds is...well....BS. Maybe I'll take this same BS approach and call my 20GPH water maker a 28GPH water maker and when clients called to complain just tell them: "Sorry amigo, our ideal conditions are not real life, thanks for your money, not go away and deal with it".
But that's the metric...implimentors already understand the standard deviation from the rated numbers. If you understated your rated at number, how's an implementer supposed to know what your output is going to be?

They could end up setting your home on fire because the rating didnt follow the industry standard.

The math says "this is what the system _can_ do." It's not BS, it's just the standard based on square feet of wind capture, stator and rotor design, how it's coiled, etc etc etc...it's all Math.

Yes I agree however that a statement could or even should be made that these are the theoretical limits, and the average consumer should not expect to see them in real world applications. Or something to that effect.



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Old 22-07-2014, 15:23   #72
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Re: Are Wind Generators even worth it?

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But that's the metric...
Exactly my point…They are using a Bogus Metric to hide the real life results.

My 20GPH water maker can make 30GPH when operated in fresh water...but Hello McFly, people are buying our water maker to operate in Salt Water. But by your logic, as long as I publish my "metric" and the industry plays along, I can rate my water maker for fresh water production. Heck, I published my Metric so that makes it the client’s job to figure it out, right? You must either be a wind generator manufacturer (which I AM by the way) or you are in sales and marketing of cigarettes.

People are buying a wind generator for a boat, so here's a novel concept; publish the "metric" of a wind generator on a boat....WOW.....what a novel and controversial concept.

Quote:
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Yes I agree however that a statement could or even should be made that these are the theoretical limits, and the average consumer should not expect to see them in real world applications.
Funny...I can't find a Wind Gen Manufacturer making such a "you won't see this" sales and marketing claim...why.....well we both know the answer...Tabaco isn't addictive...trust us....
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Old 22-07-2014, 15:37   #73
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Re: Are Wind Generators even worth it?

Just because you don't understand the maths and standard deviation doesn't make anyone else dishonest or stupid.

Antennas are measured and rated against the theoretically perfect antenna too, why don't you start a thread about that.

o7


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Old 22-07-2014, 15:48   #74
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Re: Are Wind Generators even worth it?

Na....me no understand.....you help me please....

Me no science man just ignore the 9 US patents that let me retire at 38 and go cruising...

Thanks for the fun.
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Old 22-07-2014, 15:57   #75
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"SV THIRD DAY
Thanks for the fun.[/QUOTE]

Watching you bang your head against the wall was giving me a headache : ) and sales people of wind generators aren't exaggerating you just aren't reading their literature properly. ( sad laughter)
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