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Old 07-08-2016, 20:25   #1
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Are the BTU's on this Cruisair correct? If so, what genset would support it?

I'm looking at a 40' Jeanneau that's listed with 2 aircon units:
Cruisair 1 x 1600btu & 1 x 1200btu

Are those specs correct or did they forget an extra zero? Would 16,000 and 12,000 BTUs make more sense?

I'm also looking for a genset to run those (or even just 1) units. Would a Honda 2000 work? How about a Honda 3000? What about two of the Honda units in parallel for a total of 4,000 or 6,000 Watts, respectively.

I was given the following quote for a Fisher Panda:

FISHER PANDA 4.2kW-60Hz (3.8kW CONTINUOUS) MARINE DIESEL GENERATOR - (120VAC*34AMP) (240VAC*17AMP) INCLUDES REMOTE CONTROL PANEL W/ CABLE, SOUNDCOVER & REMOTE FUEL LIFT PUMP (21.25 x 17.5 x 21.9) (Wt 268)
Shipping Weight: 288
Shipping Dims: 24 x 22 x 30 (9.2cft)
Your cost for the Fischer Panda 4.2kw is 9034.00

My budget is $4,000, with the possibility of going to $5,000 or slightly over if it's a MUST.

Any input will be greatly appreciated!!

Fair winds,

-Luke

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Old 07-08-2016, 20:51   #2
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Re: Are the BTU's on this Cruisair correct? If so, what genset would support it?

Yes, 16k and 12k total cooling. That's roughly 20 amps plus (you need to google it). Start-up amps, even for the smaller unit, probably too much for the little Honda, as well as the Honda not being suitable for that type of continuous duty.

You will need the larger genset, especially after adding in all additional loads.

My understanding is that the Panda has received very mixed reviews. Also depends on your anticipated duty cycle. How do you intend to operate away from the dock?
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Old 07-08-2016, 21:16   #3
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Re: Are the BTU's on this Cruisair correct? If so, what genset would support it?

You will need a genset rated for continuous duty.

What is your proposed usage and all up power budget?

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 08-08-2016, 06:46   #4
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Re: Are the BTU's on this Cruisair correct? If so, what genset would support it?

20 amp x 120 volt = 2400 watt or 2.4 Kw. Plus lights, fridge etc. Add a microwave and you need 4Kw continuous at a minimum.
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Old 08-08-2016, 07:01   #5
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Re: Are the BTU's on this Cruisair correct? If so, what genset would support it?

stuff it all and go buy a onan 6.5 kw genset and install that into your lil sailing boat. it should cover all you use including electric stove. i loved mine when i had a power boat in lost angeles. made life nice, considering all we had for shore power was 15 amp service.. it isnt even noisy.
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Old 08-08-2016, 07:04   #6
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Re: Are the BTU's on this Cruisair correct? If so, what genset would support it?

Two Honda's will run them both, continuously.
But for about 5 grand or a little more you can install a Nexgen 3.5 KW.
I started out with two Honda's, and they worked well, I ran them off of my dinghy fuel tank, but they were a real pain to store, and do contain gasoline, and get heavy after awhile.

But for the money, you can't beat the Honda's $2 grand and you get 26 amps continuously
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Old 08-08-2016, 07:18   #7
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Re: Are the BTU's on this Cruisair correct? If so, what genset would support it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post
You will need a genset rated for continuous duty.
What is your proposed usage and all up power budget?
Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Propose usage = the 16,000 BTU unit only for night time sleeping. Everything else will be off. Battery charger would only be on if A/C is off. Only other thing would be on would probably be just the water pump and a few LED lights.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redsky49 View Post
Yes, 16k and 12k total cooling. That's roughly 20 amps plus (you need to google it). Start-up amps, even for the smaller unit, probably too much for the little Honda, as well as the Honda not being suitable for that type of continuous duty.

You will need the larger genset, especially after adding in all additional loads.

My understanding is that the Panda has received very mixed reviews. Also depends on your anticipated duty cycle. How do you intend to operate away from the dock?
Too much for the little Honda 2000? What about 2x2000 in parallel? What about the 3000 or 2x3000 in parallel?

Yeah, my research shows mixed reviews on the Panda, as well.

How do I intend to operate away from dock? As above, only for sleeping A/C (and I really only need the 16,000 BTU unit on, I don't need the 12,000 BTU unit on). If I could have both - GREAT! If not, I'll live with it.

As mentioned, water pump would probably be the only other thing along with a few fans and a few LED lights. Battery charger and GPS/VHF/Autopilot would all be off during generator use.
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Old 08-08-2016, 07:22   #8
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Re: Are the BTU's on this Cruisair correct? If so, what genset would support it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOffice View Post
20 amp x 120 volt = 2400 watt or 2.4 Kw. Plus lights, fridge etc. Add a microwave and you need 4Kw continuous at a minimum.
Makes sense. V=IR and P=IV show 2.4kW. I'm assuming loss of about 20% due to resistance and inefficiencies. No microwave needed. Although, if I ever did get one, I would probably have the A/C off. Then, again - I say that now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
stuff it all and go buy a onan 6.5 kw genset and install that into your lil sailing boat. it should cover all you use including electric stove. i loved mine when i had a power boat in lost angeles. made life nice, considering all we had for shore power was 15 amp service.. it isnt even noisy.
The Onan looks to be about $5,000, right? Sounds feasible. Would I have to worry about the weight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Two Honda's will run them both, continuously.
But for about 5 grand or a little more you can install a Nexgen 3.5 KW.
I started out with two Honda's, and they worked well, I ran them off of my dinghy fuel tank, but they were a real pain to store, and do contain gasoline, and get heavy after awhile.

But for the money, you can't beat the Honda's $2 grand and you get 26 amps continuously
Thanks, A64Pilot! Which two Honda's? The 2000i? 2000is? 3000i? 3000is? I know there are a couple of models for each wattage.
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Old 08-08-2016, 09:56   #9
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Re: Are the BTU's on this Cruisair correct? If so, what genset would support it?

Optional you can add a smart start 2. Reduces your start up which is normally 5 times your running amps. I have a cruisair 16,000 but starting is 11 amps in it runs at 11amps.
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Old 08-08-2016, 10:17   #10
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Re: Are the BTU's on this Cruisair correct? If so, what genset would support it?

I ran a couple of TV's, both AC's, one 16K and the second 5K, battery charger etc.
The whole boat essentially, just like we were plugged into shorepower with two Honda 2000's.
It takes one Companion, and the second the regular Honda, Companion has the same plug your shore power cord does.
I only did this once or twice before I decided it was more work than I wanted and to completely eliminate CO meant they had to be in the dinghy, good news though, is inside the boat, they were completely inaudible.
But that little experiment taught me that the Honda's were not a long term solution for me, a built in generator is.
Lightest, smallest and cheapest built in I could find was the Nexgen 3.5, plus call them right now and someone will answer the phone, I did this morning to order some parts, just got the message from UPS, they will be delivered tomorrow.
That means a lot to me, someone answering, having the parts on hand and shipping that morning.
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Old 08-08-2016, 13:41   #11
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Re: Are the BTU's on this Cruisair correct? If so, what genset would support it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
Makes sense. V=IR and P=IV show 2.4kW. I'm assuming loss of about 20% due to resistance and inefficiencies. .


Yes, include a loss factor. 15-20% is a good ball park number. In my practical experience, a horsepower is not 754 watts, but something closer to 1000 watts when all is said and done.


"How do I intend to operate away from dock? As above, only for sleeping A/C (and I really only need the 16,000 BTU unit on, I don't need the 12,000 BTU unit on). If I could have both - GREAT! If not, I'll live with it.

As mentioned, water pump would probably be the only other thing along with a few fans and a few LED lights. Battery charger and GPS/VHF/Autopilot would all be off during generator use."

I think I can honestly state that in the future you will not reduce the electrical demand load, but instead add to it. You don't list an anchor light. Nor any refrigeration loads. What about a stereo or tv? Do you plan to reharge your phone or laptop at anchor? All of these items call for the larger generator. We have a coffee maker, vacuum, etc. that all get used regularly, and require electricity. I have a corded drill, orbital sander, buffer, etc. Do an electrical load plan.

I have seen a lot of the portable Hondas while cruising, typically sitting on someone's foredeck laboring away to recharge batteries. In this use they see a couple hours a day of runtime. They are noisy, contrary to other reports, use gasoline which is dangerous as well as expensive, and being air-cooled (and built to a price point) have a much shorter anticipated life span - compared to a slow turning diesel genset. [The Panda is, I believe, a high speed diesel engine, not one of the 1800 rpm, long lasting units].

As a matter of fact, I think most cruisers use these small units in conjunction with solar or wind.

A built-in diesel genset would likely add value to your boat. The portables, no.

Why have to manage two fuel types? Gasoline is often more difficult to obtain than diesel. You cannot safely store it belowdecks. It goes bad faster than diesel, especially if ethanol is added.

A diesel genset can be programmed to operate automatically. Could that be useful to you?

Take a second look at a built-in system. Maybe second hand? And the boat shows are coming up soon.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 08-08-2016, 15:41   #12
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Re: Are the BTU's on this Cruisair correct? If so, what genset would support it?

The mentioning of running 2 generators in parallel sends the hairs in my neck up.

I hope you don't mean feeding the output of both into the same grid/circuit.

If you were to do this they may blow each other up since their output is AC and if they don't run in phase they'll burn up; both of them.
You can only do that if you have a means to have them run in phase which I doubt to be on hand for a portable generator.
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Old 08-08-2016, 16:53   #13
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Re: Are the BTU's on this Cruisair correct? If so, what genset would support it?

the gentlemen who previously owned my boat installed a Westerbeke 4.OKW BCD single phase to mate with my Cruisair STX16 (16000 BTU) and the combo works well. My understanding is that too large a generator not only wastes fuel but tends to have mechanical problems. For gen sets bigger is not always better. My feeling is that shutting down the water heater or AC when using the microwave is no big deal.
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Old 08-08-2016, 16:59   #14
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Re: Are the BTU's on this Cruisair correct? If so, what genset would support it?

We have 18000 model with a honda 2000 everything else on the 240 volt off, works well.
does labour a little at initial start up but still has done it now for 6 yrs and still going.
Note draws more in heating mode.
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Old 08-08-2016, 17:02   #15
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Re: Are the BTU's on this Cruisair correct? If so, what genset would support it?

Honda's have special paralleling socket setup so no problem there but seems a waste running two???
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