Anyone tried? Floating panels?

[CaptJamesCook]

Why not just put them in your RIB

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by Gaia

I got prompted to reply by the last post I read on this idea by zstine. Whenever a new or interesting idea is suggested or discussed it behooves us imho to first of all be positive about it. And zstine did just that! Kudos to you. Later, after discussing the pros one might turn to suggestions for overcoming the obvious objections. Doing so immediately is just throwing cold water on someone's open mind.

The first rule of brainstorming: be positive before criticizing in a negative way!

Jim

This is 'Millennial Thinking'. i.e. "If you don't agree with me, then you don't support me". This is not the case. There is no point in making someone feel good about their 'square wheel' idea. Assisting someone in building a square wheel is ridiculous, and taking the time to point out the merits of a square wheel is asinine.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by zstine

I'm assuming the large following wave question is when under way when the system is stowed. Easy.. use a hinged gate to secure and protect the panels. Think amusement ride harness that drops down over the riders. Add a piece of sheet metal to absorb the impact of the wave and the stowed system could take quite a hit...

sun dead ahead... Um, no panel makes any power with the sun on the horizon. Certainly a floating array aft of the boat will get as much sun as a typical bimini mounted system.

Wow a piece of sheet metal will stop a 10' wave crashing over the stern? That's one magic piece of sheet metal. Or did we just make this simple cheap solution a $20k solution?

Dead ahead in terms of compass heading not in terms of angle above the horizon. (say noon in the northern hemisphere with the sun 60deg above the horizon, a fairly common situation). This is a common issue with solar on boats and why solar is typically on raised areas to minimize shading (top of davits being the most popular). By dropping them to the water level and right close to the hull, you will lose a large percentage of their output much of the time.

[zstine]

Regarding marine grade panels.. never heard of them, marine grade charge controllers yes, but not panels. I have a pair of generic Kyocera panels on my boat and they are aluminum frame, potted/waterproof junction boxes, permanent pigtail leads with waterproof MC4 connections and I've never had issue with them mounted over the cockpit. I don't see why you can't use something similar in a floating situation. Yeah, maybe the connectors may go south quicker than a mount on the bimini, but it's not a show stopper if you have to re-connectorize the wires every 5 years... You won't know how they hold up without trying. So, unless the nae sayers have some specific test information that salt spray causes panel failures, they are blowing smoke. If you think this is a quick death to a solar panel, please site some test reports or some specific information to back your claim.

[zstine]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Wow a piece of sheet metal will stop a 10' wave crashing over the stern? That's one magic piece of sheet metal. Or did we just make this simple cheap solution a $20k solution?

Dead ahead in terms of compass heading not in terms of angle above the horizon. (say noon in the northern hemisphere with the sun 60deg above the horizon, a fairly common situation). This is a common issue with solar on boats and why solar is typically on raised areas to minimize shading (top of davits being the most popular). By dropping them to the water level and right close to the hull, you will lose a large percentage of their output much of the time.

Please stop before spitting out nonsense reasons that this guy should stop trying to make his world a better place. First, a 10 foot wave breaking over your stern would bring down most davit mounted solar panels out there. So, why do you need to exceed the design capability of what is currently accepted in the industry? That said, my buddy is building a 44 foot AL ketch and the hull plating above the waterline is 1/4" thick sheet AL. That's more than strong enough assuming the frame supporting it can take the impact load... and assuming you don't design it to be removed for blue water passages or something like that. There are many, many ways to protect it from wave slap.

If the boat has a reverse transom or swim platform, then I would expect little/no shading with the sun at 60deg depending on the transom angle. If you look at my design, the 'panel' closest to the hull could just be an empty frame to get the active array farther from the boat if needed.. simple solutions abound

valhalla360, these are not real problems but simply additional "design criteria" that can be easily solved in many ways with little money/complexity. There are limitless ways to accomplish the OP's floating panel design and if we knew more about his specific design criteria, then we could narrow down a design... maybe he is not going blue water sailing at all? If he's in a small boat, but has a high power usage and plans to spend a lot of time in protected anchorages, then I think a floating array is an excellent solution to get him power.. much better than a generator!!

CaptainJamesCook has a good idea too.. put them in the dinghy. Maybe a bit more cumbersome to deploy, but you can haul it all up on a halyard at night for theft protection and it would drift clear as far as the painter and wire allow to keep it from shading... cheap and easy. Floating array is a great idea. I hope the OP goes for it and keeps us posted.

[zstine]

Originally Posted by Shrew

This is 'Millennial Thinking'. i.e. "If you don't agree with me, then you don't support me". This is not the case. There is no point in making someone feel good about their 'square wheel' idea. Assisting someone in building a square wheel is ridiculous, and taking the time to point out the merits of a square wheel is asinine.

what is asinine is to suggest an entire generation of people cannot effectively design, build and communicate. I know some brilliant millennials who are successful, creative and polite... a square wheel rolls better than a round wheel on a square toothed surface. A floating solar array is far from a dumb idea, as you seem to suggest. If you have a 'show stopper' type problem, present it and back it up.

[Kenomac]

I don't think the OP has spent any time in anchorages or seen how much something like our dinghy gets bashed around by the swells even in relatively calm anchorages. His panels would last only a couple of hours at most, and probably less.

A terrible idea and costly exercise. IMHO

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by zstine

Please stop before spitting out nonsense reasons that this guy should stop trying to make his world a better place. First, a 10 foot wave breaking over your stern would bring down most davit mounted solar panels out there. OK a 6' wave. That will hit the transoms on many boats but be well below the davits. Same principal. So, why do you need to exceed the design capability of what is currently accepted in the industry? That said, my buddy is building a 44 foot AL ketch and the hull plating above the waterline is 1/4" thick sheet AL. That's a lot different than bolting a contraption on the stern of a 28' fiberglass boat. Of course, at that size, he can probably fit plenty of panels up away from the water. That's more than strong enough assuming the frame supporting it can take the impact load...Wait, it the contraption inside the hull or on the outside? Inside is complicated and expensive. Outside it's exposed and likely to be damaged by any waves hitting the stern and conflicts with the dingy launching. and assuming you don't design it to be removed for blue water passages or something like that. Where will it fit on a small boat stuffed to the gills on a passage? There are many, many ways to protect it from wave slap.

If the boat has a reverse transom or swim platform, then I would expect little/no shading with the sun at 60deg depending on the transom angle. And no use of the swim platform either. If you look at my design, the 'panel' closest to the hull could just be an empty frame to get the active array farther from the boat if needed.. simple solutions abound

valhalla360, these are not real problems but simply additional "design criteria" that can be easily solved in many ways with little money/complexity.Individually, they aren't hard to solve. In combination,
it quickly get's out of hand. There are limitless ways to accomplish the OP's floating panel design and if we knew more about his specific design criteria, then we could narrow down a design... maybe he is not going blue water sailing at all? If he's in a small boat, but has a high power usage and plans to spend a lot of time in protected anchorages, then I think a floating array is an excellent solution to get him power.. much better than a generator!! Only if the long time is basically never moves.

CaptainJamesCook has a good idea too.. put them in the dinghy. Maybe a bit more cumbersome to deploy, but you can haul it all up on a halyard at night for theft protection and it would drift clear as far as the painter and wire allow to keep it from shading... cheap and easy. Floating array is a great idea. I hope the OP goes for it and keeps us posted.

In the dingy could work until a storm sweeps thru and flips the dingy. I've had that happen a couple times.

Yes, it can be done but not before it gets very impractical.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by zstine

I like this idea and think the issues of theft, visibility, shading, launching and retrieving are all easily resolved with good design. How's this for a suggestion. Bolt the solar array to the transom on a hinge and each panel bolts to the next via a hinge. To stow, the array of panels is folded accordion style against the transom and secured. Airbags permanently attached under the panels are inflated to deploy, and deflated to retrieve. With a good design, this could be accomplished practically hands off with a pump that can also suck and a supply tube fed to the air bags. The airbags can be large enough to keep the panels a foot or more above the water, so visibility should be fine and off the transom, there is little shade from a sailboat. Stealing them would require un-bolting and if you tack weld the nuts, it would be quite a job to get them off. I drew a little diagram...

Many of these ideas seem to be coming from members who obviously have spent zero amount of time in achorages and are totally unfamiliar with the forces generated by ocean swell, the continuously changing conditions of swell, wind, tide and movement of a boat. Just this morning I was awakened by an approaching thunderstorm accompanied my an instant change from total flat calm zero wind to 40 knot winds, and a boat sailing wildly from side to side on the anchor and choppy seas.... all this at 5am.

I needed to take down all canvas awnings, let out 60ft of additional chain and close all port windows. Just trying to picture this floating solar raft contraption in this situation.... as it sinks beneath the waves after first beating up the boat.

Not every idea is a good idea.

[Deltasailor]

Originally Posted by zstine

Please stop before spitting out nonsense reasons that this guy should stop trying to make his world a better place. First, a 10 foot wave breaking over your stern would bring down most davit mounted solar panels out there. So, why do you need to exceed the design capability of what is currently accepted in the industry? That said, my buddy is building a 44 foot AL ketch and the hull plating above the waterline is 1/4" thick sheet AL. That's more than strong enough assuming the frame supporting it can take the impact load... and assuming you don't design it to be removed for blue water passages or something like that. There are many, many ways to protect it from wave slap.

If the boat has a reverse transom or swim platform, then I would expect little/no shading with the sun at 60deg depending on the transom angle. If you look at my design, the 'panel' closest to the hull could just be an empty frame to get the active array farther from the boat if needed.. simple solutions abound

valhalla360, these are not real problems but simply additional "design criteria" that can be easily solved in many ways with little money/complexity. There are limitless ways to accomplish the OP's floating panel design and if we knew more about his specific design criteria, then we could narrow down a design... maybe he is not going blue water sailing at all? If he's in a small boat, but has a high power usage and plans to spend a lot of time in protected anchorages, then I think a floating array is an excellent solution to get him power.. much better than a generator!!

CaptainJamesCook has a good idea too.. put them in the dinghy. Maybe a bit more cumbersome to deploy, but you can haul it all up on a halyard at night for theft protection and it would drift clear as far as the painter and wire allow to keep it from shading... cheap and easy. Floating array is a great idea. I hope the OP goes for it and keeps us posted.

I agree, I have sailed for 35 years including a round the horn trip and never had a 10' wave on the transom. Stop being negative!

[zstine]

I'm not going to defend my 'floating dock' like design, because millions in R&D and current deployment of a similar design shows it works. In fact it is designed to withstand typhoon force winds and is under development for salt/ocean deployment. So, I guess a floating dock with solar panels on it is too risky for some.. hope the OP sees the reward... BTW, I've been sailing over 20 years and never had a RIB flip at anchor.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...outside-london

Solar Panels Floating on Water Will Power Japan's Homes

[PaulinOz]

The 40-megawatt facility was just connected to the local power grid in Huainan, China. It's just a matter of scale and money.

[Jim Cate]

BTW, I've been sailing over 20 years and never had a RIB flip at anchor.

Well, I have had our 3.5 meter RIB complete with 15 hp outboard flip,and I've seen a lot of other folks' not only flip but fly in the air at the end of their painters. Takes pretty strong winds, but then strong winds do happen, and not just in named storms, etc.

My thought on floating panels: Yep, could be done, but to make it viable would be fairly daunting. For the OP's situation, seems like one could swing a lot of panels from the lifelines, far easier than floating them. This practice is usually limited to a couple of panels, but could easily run the full length of the boat. Far less problem to set up and dismount, no particular theft issues (a red herring IMO), minimal increase in anchorage area used, no hazard to passing dinks or other vessels. There could be greater shading issues, but the increase in number of panels should help offset that.

But if the OP wants to try floating them, have at it! No one but he will bear the brunt of the downsides of the plan.

Jim

[Rorzech]

This is a great idea having them hinged off the transom. There's a boat SV Paragon who mounted a mess of them the full length of his boat on the tubular rail so he could swing them from horizontal to vertical and lock them into position all nicely out of the way. Then I saw some 18 ft long by 16 inches wide flexible sticky-back panels that you could stick right to the top of your hull.I guess one side would be under water when sailing. Hmmmm..
Im going to start making mine into a Bimini, killing two birds with one stone and maybe collect water with them also. We'll see.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by PaulinOz

The 40-megawatt facility was just connected to the local power grid in Huainan, China. It's just a matter of scale and money.

Because an industrial permanent installation on a small lake/protected bay where access to boaters is severely restricted is just like a DIY tempoarily deployable installation on an exposed body of water where other boaters may run over or at least wake the instalaltion.