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Old 25-07-2012, 22:34   #1
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Any Knowledge of the 12v Air Conditioners like MES 6000

I have been hearing that 12v air conditioners (NOT THE ICE BOX TYPE) are being successfully utilized on some vessels in the BVI.

I am told they are quiet running, run all night on battery power without the need for a noisy generator and are fairly compact and easily installed.

Are any sailors out there using a system such as Cruise n Comfort MES 6000 (6000 BTU) units and if so ... HOW WELL DO THEY PERFORM?
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Old 26-07-2012, 00:51   #2
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Re: Any knowledge of the 12v air conditioners like MES 6000

Do a search of CF and your will find this thread about the MES6000 - 12vdc Air Conditioning Systems

Basically though, 12VDC driven air conditioning is not viable as the draw on your batteries is simply too much and would require expensive re-charging systems. Since the cost of the units is virtually the same as 120VAC marine systems, when you add in the cost of what's necessary to provide their huge 12VDC appetites you end up paying a lot more than folks with normal marine air conditioning that is run off shore power or a genset.

MES™ 6000
Cool only
Max. BTU: 6000
Input Voltage: 12 Volts DC
Power consumption:
low 18 amps
med 35 amps
high 50 amps

Size: L 26 x W 14 x H 10.5
Weight: 80 Lbs.
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Old 29-07-2012, 14:22   #3
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Re: Any Knowledge of the 12v Air Conditioners like MES 6000

I have found Marvair 5000 Btu 12v model on the internet. Which can be an alternative brand. Marvair - Marine - DC Air Conditioner
There are two models with 7000 and 14000 Btu capacity that run with 24V.
Has anybody used this brand of DC operated Airconditioners ? I wonder their performance. I am planing to run 5000 Btu model with 500 Wp solar panels which charges 600 Ah lead -acid, 12V battery block.
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Old 29-07-2012, 15:34   #4
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Re: Any Knowledge of the 12v Air Conditioners like MES 6000

The one big plus of 12v air conditioners, as I understand it, is that you don't have the huge motor start surge that you have in AC powered AC's...therefore you can spec the generator to a lower level. One of the major thread items seems to be about generators not being able to handle the large start up surge of the air conditioner's AC driven compressor motors.

However, as you can see from the specs, they still draw about 30 amps DC (12 volt) so are impractical to use without a generator/charger or a huge battery bank.
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Old 29-07-2012, 17:47   #5
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Re: Any Knowledge of the 12v Air Conditioners like MES 6000

Thanks for the comments so far ... DeepFrz ... that makes sense. I believe there are 'soft starters' for AC aircon units and one thing that interested me about what I read about the MES 6000 is that they have 3 compressors, so although there is an initial draw of 50 AH it reduces down to 18 AH as the cabin cools and maintains it there. Apparently this is done by shutting down one compressor at a time which I believe the system does automatically
VOLKANGORCIZ.... Thanks for the input but I would think the former is better due to the lower amps required ???
Osirissail ... I will check that out ... thanks
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Old 29-07-2012, 17:55   #6
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Re: Any knowledge of the 12v air conditioners like MES 6000

Quote:
Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
Do a search of CF and your will find this thread about the MES6000 - 12vdc Air Conditioning Systems

Basically though, 12VDC driven air conditioning is not viable as the draw on your batteries is simply too much and would require expensive re-charging systems. Since the cost of the units is virtually the same as 120VAC marine systems, when you add in the cost of what's necessary to provide their huge 12VDC appetites you end up paying a lot more than folks with normal marine air conditioning that is run off shore power or a genset.

MES™ 6000
Cool only
Max. BTU: 6000
Input Voltage: 12 Volts DC
Power consumption:
low 18 amps
med 35 amps
high 50 amps

Size: L 26 x W 14 x H 10.5
Weight: 80 Lbs.
We have about 1000AH battery bank on board, 6KVA inverter (Victron), 2x 150AH Balmar alternators through smart charger and center fielder, 5 Kyocera solar panels (135 each) which pushes about 40-45 AH for most of the day through a Bluesky MPPT controller, A 7/9KW Onan genset which charges batteries through the inverter chargers rated at 240AH, so I think we already have the expensive charging systems needed ... Would one be able to run AC aircons through the inverters we have and would our batteries be sufficient?
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Old 29-07-2012, 17:58   #7
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Re: Any Knowledge of the 12v Air Conditioners like MES 6000

I don't think there is any difference between a 12v (or 24v) aircon unit and a regular AC aircon which you power with your inverter. I think that the DC aircons have inverters inside them.

One big advantage of powering an aircon with DC power, it seems to me, is that you don't have to run your genset continuously. Air con compressors will run intermittently when it cools off at night, and your genset will just be idling (and maybe polishing its bores) while waiting for the compressor to cut in again.

It all depends on the duty cycle, I guess, for your particular climate and particular unit. If it is running only 25% of the time, then even if it draws 50 amps when it's on, then it will be manageable for many people's battery banks.

I would be interested if anyone has concrete experience.
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Old 29-07-2012, 18:09   #8
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Re: Any knowledge of the 12v air conditioners like MES 6000

Quote:
Originally Posted by impi View Post
We have about 1000AH battery bank on board, 6KVA inverter (Victron), 2x 150AH Balmar alternators through smart charger and center fielder, 5 Kyocera solar panels (135 each) which pushes about 40-45 AH for most of the day through a Bluesky MPPT controller, A 7/9KW Onan genset which charges batteries through the inverter chargers rated at 240AH, so I think we already have the expensive charging systems needed ... Would one be able to run AC aircons through the inverters we have and would our batteries be sufficient?
Your Victron (a big one!) will easily run AC units, will give them a high quality sine wave output they require, and will deal with any short term startup currents through power boost, if it is not some old model from before when they invented that.

All AC units have some kind of modulation (otherwise, they would freeze you). Mostly the compressors cycle on and off as far as I know.

I have a similar amount of battery power on board my boat, and I'm not sure my batts would run an aircon. They have other work to do overnight keeping the electronics going (if I'm at anchor), running the refrigeration, etc. But you wouldn't necessarily need battery capacity sufficient to run the aircon all night -- you could put an automatic startup control module on your Onan genset, run the aircon off your inverter, and program the genset to come on automatically when the batts get low. That must be much more efficient than basically idling the genset all night just so you can run your aircon intermittently.
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Old 29-07-2012, 18:18   #9
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Re: Any Knowledge of the 12v Air Conditioners like MES 6000

Dockhead, the DC AC's have brushless DC motors. They don't have inverters.
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Old 29-07-2012, 18:30   #10
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Re: Any Knowledge of the 12v Air Conditioners like MES 6000

I love air conditioning!! with that said, One of the Big reasons we are buying our new to us boat, is the 10 Kw genny in a sound box with a wet exaust. Ya have to go out side and lean over the stern to hear anything!! and inside ya have open one of the engine room doors to hear it running !! Connie and I have been stuck ashore for a while down here In South Louisiana, and have come to depend on air conditioning!! Then we had it on the Defever we fixed up and cruised. and have come to understand we enjoy sleeping COOL !! LOL But to try to answer the question, Ive seem some attempts to use DC air conditioners, and with out a DC genny they did not work out !! now Ive also seen some Auto/truck ACs run off main engines that cooled a boat pretty well !! but Im sure it would be louder then a genny in a sound box or even a 3000 honda, which would also run a smaller AC Just a couple of thoughts from us
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Old 29-07-2012, 20:36   #11
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Re: Any knowledge of the 12v air conditioners like MES 6000

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Your Victron (a big one!) will easily run AC units, will give them a high quality sine wave output they require, and will deal with any short term startup currents through power boost, if it is not some old model from before when they invented that.

All AC units have some kind of modulation (otherwise, they would freeze you). Mostly the compressors cycle on and off as far as I know.

I have a similar amount of battery power on board my boat, and I'm not sure my batts would run an aircon. They have other work to do overnight keeping the electronics going (if I'm at anchor), running the refrigeration, etc. But you wouldn't necessarily need battery capacity sufficient to run the aircon all night -- you could put an automatic startup control module on your Onan genset, run the aircon off your inverter, and program the genset to come on automatically when the batts get low. That must be much more efficient than basically idling the genset all night just so you can run your aircon intermittently.
Thanks Dockhead ... yeah we too have a number of appliances running steadily of DC ... in fact we pull about 20a steady keeping our 2 fridges, deep freeze, fans etc going ...

We run the genny 1-2 hrs every day but I do find it an irritation to sleep with whilst it operates. Unfortunately Ana is a very light sleeper which is also why we considered DC ac's
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Old 29-07-2012, 20:39   #12
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Unhappy Re: Any Knowledge of the 12v Air Conditioners like MES 6000

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobconnie View Post
I love air conditioning!! with that said, One of the Big reasons we are buying our new to us boat, is the 10 Kw genny in a sound box with a wet exaust. Ya have to go out side and lean over the stern to hear anything!! and inside ya have open one of the engine room doors to hear it running !! Connie and I have been stuck ashore for a while down here In South Louisiana, and have come to depend on air conditioning!! Then we had it on the Defever we fixed up and cruised. and have come to understand we enjoy sleeping COOL !! LOL But to try to answer the question, Ive seem some attempts to use DC air conditioners, and with out a DC genny they did not work out !! now Ive also seen some Auto/truck ACs run off main engines that cooled a boat pretty well !! but Im sure it would be louder then a genny in a sound box or even a 3000 honda, which would also run a smaller AC Just a couple of thoughts from us
bobconnie ... sounds great but unfortunately we hear ours.

A 10KW genny is a big one ... our boat not so big and we had an option to put in an Onan 11KV at the same price but I was informed that it was 'overkill' and if the genny does not draw sufficient load the liners would glaze over. Genny needs to work under load
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Old 29-07-2012, 22:35   #13
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Re: Any Knowledge of the 12v Air Conditioners like MES 6000

IMPI sombody was pullin your chain !! gennys run at 1800 RPMs mostly, some run at 3600. but they may serge when a heavy load comes on but they run at the required RPMs to supply proper voltage and cycles. ours is a 4 cyl 1800 rpm genny with sound shield and a GOOD quite muffler, nothing fancy, just what we need !! with 51 ft boat with ALL the bells and whistles, including water maker and washer and dryer 2 16000 BTU AC/ Heat units, and if needed we can run all the equipment aboard at once !! You can make your genny less noisy by adding as much sound shilding you can find room for !! and Maybe a better Muffler?? or a deck mounted Honda Genny? their quite
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Old 29-07-2012, 22:40   #14
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Re: Any Knowledge of the 12v Air Conditioners like MES 6000

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobconnie View Post
IMPI sombody was pullin your chain !! gennys run at 1800 RPMs mostly, some run at 3600. but they may serge when a heavy load comes on but they run at the required RPMs to supply proper voltage and cycles. ours is a 4 cyl 1800 rpm genny with sound shield and a GOOD quite muffler, nothing fancy, just what we need !! with 51 ft boat with ALL the bells and whistles, including water maker and washer and dryer 2 16000 BTU AC/ Heat units, and if needed we can run all the equipment aboard at once !! You can make your genny less noisy by adding as much sound shilding you can find room for !! and Maybe a better Muffler?? or a deck mounted Honda Genny? their quite
That's interesting ... definitely had my chain 'pulled then'. We also run a 6kg washer drying machine, a dive compressor and a number of other things but must admit our inverters (6KVA) are great as they have a 'power sharing mode'. The genset puts out 32amps and if an appliance kicks in demanding more, the victrons will kick in the batteries to 'share the load' ... another 6 kva.
I think that's a pretty cool feature
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Old 31-10-2016, 13:17   #15
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Re: Any Knowledge of the 12v Air Conditioners like MES 6000

Im thinking of building and designing my own 12v DC Air-conditioner built around a one of the new Masterflux Sierra compressor . Using very simple controls and a thermostatic expansion valve to control refrigerant flow. If you guys know me you know I will attempt this. LOL

I hope to get 5000 btu for 30 amps 12v dc . These are multi speed 12v volt compressors and that 30 amps is on full speed .

I will start a thread when I coble all the parts and start to solder .

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