AmplePower Genie 150 cooling question

[gordwedman]

Some friends have purchased a boat with an AmplePower Genie 150 DC generator. This uses a 1 cylinder Kubota diesel (300EL) to drive a 170 amp alternator. When we start the unit no water comes out the exhaust thru hull. We have run it for maybe 2 minutes and still no water. The "manual" such that it is, makes a big deal out of running the engine too cool so we are wondering if there is some control that keeps the DC powered raw water pump shut off till the engine reaches a set temperature. We are reluctant to just let it run to find out if this is the case or not. Anyone have one of these units? Does water immediately start flowing out of the exhaust thru hull or is there a delay? Thanks

[ebaugh]

I don't have one, but I doubt there is a delay. Raw water usually cools the exhaust. Suggest you contact the mfg for advice, unless some one with experience on the unit chimes in.

[GordMay]

Each Genie is equipped with a switch to sense overheating, and another switch that senses low oil pressure. Both switches connect to ground on one end, and to the Genie Controller on the other end. Switches are shown on the wiring diagram and can be identified by the wire colors connecting them.

The Genie Controller is a small electronic module which is supplied with the unit.

The H2O switch is normally closed, so an ohmmeter should show continuity to ground. The switch will open when the coolant is too hot.

The oil pressure switch is closed when there is oil pressure. An ohmmeter will not show continuity unless the engine is running.

The Genie Controller has a relay which is closed when the Genie is running. The relay closes during engine cranking, and will stay closed if there is oil pressure and the coolant is below the cut-off temperature of the H2O switch.

➥ Trouble Shooting Guide to the Genie

[djmarchand]

I have a NextGen 3.5KW AC genset which I think has the same engine. But the cooling system is different. Mine has an engine driven raw water pump but no fresh water pump. Coolant circulation through the heat exchanger is accomplished by a thermosyphon effect which creates flow due to the temperature and elevation differences.

I looked at the pictures of the Genie and where a belt drive r/w pump is located on mine, there is nothing on the Genie. So it does seem to have a DC raw water pump which is surprising. It probably uses the same thermosyphon system as mine to avoid having a coolant circulating pump.

It is possible that the DC raw water pump is controlled by the coolant temperature sensor. That too is surprising since another poster noted that you wouldn't get any exhaust cooling until the sensor starts the raw water pump.

So unless you can confirm the operation of the pump from another owner or the factory, this is what I would do: Put a voltmeter on the DC raw water pump's motor terminals and start the engine. If you read 12 V and you get no water out of the exhaust then the motor is bad.

If you don't read any voltage then you have a quandary. Frankly I can't believe that this unit is designed to delay raw water flow until the engine heats up. That would be a disaster waiting to happen which would melt your water lift muffler if the controller fails.

So maybe the controller has failed or a relay is stuck or ????

You could just run it for a while and monitor the exhaust hose and lift muffler temps with an IR gun. If the lift muffler gets up to 200 deg and still no raw water flow, shut it down as the fiberglass will soon melt.

David

[gordwedman]

Thanks for the replies. I hot wired the DC raw water pump and it ran fine so there is nothing wrong with the pump. I also had a voltmeter connected to it when we ran the engine and I got no voltage. We have studied the wiring diagram and know about the low oil pressure and high temperature cut out switches. I point out to my friend that there is no "low temperature cut out" switch shown in the system which implies the raw water pump should start immediately but he is reluctant to rely on my logic. The manual does not explicitly state the raw water should start flowing immediately but they do say the flow should be at least 1 gallon per minute so again this implies immediate flow. AmplePower does not take phone calls for tech questions. If you want a personal response you have to email and pay. I sent support@amplepower.com a "quick question" and their reply was to post my question on their forum and a tech may answer. Not overly impressed with their documentation or service.
Still waiting to hear from someone who actually has one of these.

[ebaugh]

I hope you get a informed owner response.

But if not, start the unit, run awhile, if the pump runs when hot, that's what the info that Gord posted said it should do. That is very different than the normal philosophy, but perhaps normal folks did not design the system?

If you have an IR heat gun, watch the temp where it connects to the exhaust hose. Assuming its a wet exhaust, that should remain below about 250F, for normal hose, The engine assuming it has coolant, should remain below 180F to 200F where the coolant touches metal surfaces. Oil cooled parts can run higher.

The closest Ive seen is a Mase 2Kw generator, where the engine was air cooled, there was no water/circulated cooling. But even in that one, the exhaust had raw water injection from the beginning. Don't understand how you could not?

Best Bob

Good luck!

[gordwedman]

The high temperature switch activates a solenoid in the fuel line which shuts off fuel. It does not turn on the raw water pump. At first we had trouble getting the engine to run so we bypassed the fulel shut off solenoid. It turned out the fuel system just needed a good bleeding and now runs fine but no water out of the exhaust. We cam see where the raw water is supposed to be injected into the exhaust system. It is a small stainless elbow. If it were up to me i would just put in a separate swith for the raw water pump and forget about Genie.

[FlyingCloud1937]

Originally Posted by gordwedman

The high temperature switch activates a solenoid in the fuel line which shuts off fuel. It does not turn on the raw water pump. At first we had trouble getting the engine to run so we bypassed the fulel shut off solenoid. It turned out the fuel system just needed a good bleeding and now runs fine but no water out of the exhaust. We cam see where the raw water is supposed to be injected into the exhaust system. It is a small stainless elbow. If it were up to me i would just put in a separate swith for the raw water pump and forget about Genie.

The Genie's raw water pump, is dc and runs through an oil pressure switch. It only pumps when there is oil pressure.

This is so the pump doesn't flood the engine.

Lloyd

[gordwedman]

The low oil pressure switch is supposed to close the soleniod in the fuel line to shut off the engine. It would make sense to shut off the raw water pump as well. I don't think we have low oil pressure though.

[Florida Mike]

Disconnect the hose at the point that it goes into the exhaust, next activate the pump. Is there water, (yes find out why the pump doesn't turn on. No, find out why the pump doesn't pump.) Fix what ever is the problem. If you have rubber hoses in the exhaust system you will have water with in seconds of starting. Most probably the problem is in the activation system for the pump. Mike

[gordwedman]

Originally Posted by Florida Mike

Disconnect the hose at the point that it goes into the exhaust, next activate the pump. Is there water, (yes find out why the pump doesn't turn on. No, find out why the pump doesn't pump.) Fix what ever is the problem. If you have rubber hoses in the exhaust system you will have water with in seconds of starting. Most probably the problem is in the activation system for the pump. Mike

"Fix what ever is the problem."

Good idea. I will keep that in mind. Thanks.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Florida Mike

Disconnect the hose at the point that it goes into the exhaust, next activate the pump. Is there water, (yes find out why the pump doesn't turn on. No, find out why the pump doesn't pump.) Fix what ever is the problem. If you have rubber hoses in the exhaust system you will have water with in seconds of starting. Most probably the problem is in the activation system for the pump. Mike

Yeah, basic stuff. Wonder when they went to a DC pump? the early ones had the belt drive raw water pump I believe.... I built two of them myself and it was remarkably simple. Great way to charge batteries in a small package...low rpm and very quiet too...

[gordwedman]

OK, today it pumps water. Not exactly sure what the problem was but I discovered a connector at the Genie control unit that was poorly crimped. Replaced that one and a second one where I could just pull out the wire. Now it pumps out large volumes of water as soon as the engine is running. Cross that one off the list...