Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-06-2015, 19:21   #16
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,400
Images: 1
Re: Alternator output cable sparkles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by scherzoja View Post
Thanks for all your replies and advice.

It looks like I'm in the market for a new alternator.
I didn't get the alt. tested, but the local mechanic identified the alternator, which has no markings, as a GM alternator, like one would find in a pickup truck or down at the chevy dealer. Also, the terminal on the alternator labeled BAT is lose; wen I tighten the nut to hold the pos cable on , the stud begins to spin.
Third, after examining the engine rotation (didn't actually look at rotation because engine is not running, no oil, no coolant, no fuel, but I know it rotates CW), I realized that the alternator is being rotated backwards! Not sure for how long the PO ran with that alternator rotating backwards, but I'll guess it might have been pushed to or over it's thermal limits because the cooling fins are directional!

I'm not one to take too many chances and, since the boat's pretty much torn apart for remodel anyway, I'm going to toss this POS and get one that is appropriate for my engine's rotation, appropriate or the 464AH house bank capacity, and one that actually has a manual!.

Again, thanks or all your help and time.
Good to hear!
Normally,engines turn CW looking at front. Dual engine boats have one CW & other CCW (special rev. camshaft) PO got the "odd" alternator I guess.
Though a regular GM 10si or the 100+ amp version one wire alt. will work,suggest you get the "marinized" version,as it has "spark/explosion" shielding & possibly heavier duty components for running in hot eng. compartments @ higher avg output than a motor vehicle.
Lots of new & rebuilts on ebay-rebuilts for <$100-buy 2 & have a spare aboard.
Cheers/ Len
__________________

__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2015, 21:29   #17
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,022
Re: Alternator output cable sparkles...

Explosion proof [sic] screens and whatnot are more important for a gasoline engine than for a diesel. There's a lot more to be found in "automotive" alternators than in marinized explosion-resistant ones.


The Delco companies (AC Delco and Delco Remy now) make a great variety of alternators. They're not the only ones but they are very generous about publishing technical specs so you can pick one with good output at the intended operating speeds.

In the trade, apparently a "rebuilt" alternator means "we replaced what was broken" while a remanufactured alternator has been stripped down to the frame, and reassembled with each and every part including the bearings and brushes tested and confirmed to be within the spec for new parts. So to me, "rebuilt" means basically junk yard parts that had to be fixed. And oddly enough I've had a junkyard alternator last many years longer than a number of rebuilt ones.
__________________

__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 06:03   #18
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,400
Images: 1
Re: Alternator output cable sparkles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Explosion proof [sic] screens and whatnot are more important for a gasoline engine than for a diesel. There's a lot more to be found in "automotive" alternators than in marinized explosion-resistant ones.


The Delco companies (AC Delco and Delco Remy now) make a great variety of alternators. They're not the only ones but they are very generous about publishing technical specs so you can pick one with good output at the intended operating speeds.

In the trade, apparently a "rebuilt" alternator means "we replaced what was broken" while a remanufactured alternator has been stripped down to the frame, and reassembled with each and every part including the bearings and brushes tested and confirmed to be within the spec for new parts. So to me, "rebuilt" means basically junk yard parts that had to be fixed. And oddly enough I've had a junkyard alternator last many years longer than a number of rebuilt ones.
Ha Ha-guess I never knew the difference in terminology. I will have to start using "remanufactured".
Agree 100% on Delco. A dime a dozen anywhere in N.America. Inexpensive enough to carry a spare.
Cheers/ Len
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 10:49   #19
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,022
Re: Alternator output cable sparkles...

I still wouldn't know but for some generous education from JCI (who remanufactured alternators under contract to a large auto parts chain) and the Delcos. Letting those pesky customers actually SPEAK with engineers...a radical concept that bumps any vendor onto my shorter list.(G)
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 11:13   #20
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,400
Images: 1
Re: Alternator output cable sparkles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
I still wouldn't know but for some generous education from JCI (who remanufactured alternators under contract to a large auto parts chain) and the Delcos. Letting those pesky customers actually SPEAK with engineers...a radical concept that bumps any vendor onto my shorter list.(G)
(1) What is your own opinion on a new Delco v/s a remanufactured one.

(2) Marine Delco v/s Auto Delco on a diesel (same model 10SI,etc)

/Len
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 11:31   #21
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,022
Re: Alternator output cable sparkles...

Len-
If I forget correctly...You won't be buying a Delco alternator new. ACDelco, or DelcoRemy, but plain old "Delco"...Alas poor Yorick, I knew him well. They're gone. And brand new they are all incredibly expensive. Varying with the model, mainly top quality. (Some few had reputations for problems, like built-in spike protection that killed the alternator as it wore out.)
Remanufactured...well, that varies with how good a job they do. In theory they can be as good as new but my luck with alternators is on a par with some celebrity marriages.


The 10SI has a good rep and should be easy to find spares or replacements all over. Since diesel CAN and WILL explode in the right circumstances (a fine fuel/air mist in the wrong combination makes a fuel/air BOMB) I kinda like the idea of going marine and all--if it doesn't break the budget. Of course on a boat you're better off with an external regulator in all cases, and that means modifying (removing the internal) from an integral unit like the 10SI.
The ACDelco CS130D-100 (100A model) is also worth taking a look at, a car/light truck product. Not as common but if you look online for the output curves and the speed range, a very impressive unit.
The Leece-Neville large frame alternators also make sense if you have the room to mount one, since the larger frame means better cooling from the start.


With any of them, bear in mind that if you idle at the dock at 800rpm, but run a 3400rpm into a headwind because Ed McMann is waiting at your house with that Big Prize Check (G)...that's more than a 4:1 rpm ratio, and some alternators can supply substantial power at the low end, while running all day without damage at the high end. Others? Not nearly so much, they may put out 1/2 as much at the low end and risk overheating their bearings at the high end.


I guess that's one advantage to Balmar: They've got a fairly limited product range and they usually KNOW what each piece is better at doing. And of course, a nice paint job.(G)
Maybe you can get a 10SI with a lifetime warranty from Autozone, who may still be using JCI as a remanufacturer (I don't know) for ~$150, but their clerks won't know either. You'd have to ask them for "a 1980 Cadillac 350cu.in." or whatever that alternator actually shipped on. Preferably at a slow time of day when you can open boxes and look for the model number stamped on it, to be sure. Obviously, that's just one less expensive option--not necessarily the best way to go.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 11:57   #22
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,400
Images: 1
Re: Alternator output cable sparkles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Len-
If I forget correctly...You won't be buying a Delco alternator new. ACDelco, or DelcoRemy, but plain old "Delco"...Alas poor Yorick, I knew him well. They're gone. And brand new they are all incredibly expensive. Varying with the model, mainly top quality. (Some few had reputations for problems, like built-in spike protection that killed the alternator as it wore out.)
Remanufactured...well, that varies with how good a job they do. In theory they can be as good as new but my luck with alternators is on a par with some celebrity marriages.


The 10SI has a good rep and should be easy to find spares or replacements all over. Since diesel CAN and WILL explode in the right circumstances (a fine fuel/air mist in the wrong combination makes a fuel/air BOMB) I kinda like the idea of going marine and all--if it doesn't break the budget. Of course on a boat you're better off with an external regulator in all cases, and that means modifying (removing the internal) from an integral unit like the 10SI.
The ACDelco CS130D-100 (100A model) is also worth taking a look at, a car/light truck product. Not as common but if you look online for the output curves and the speed range, a very impressive unit.
The Leece-Neville large frame alternators also make sense if you have the room to mount one, since the larger frame means better cooling from the start.


With any of them, bear in mind that if you idle at the dock at 800rpm, but run a 3400rpm into a headwind because Ed McMann is waiting at your house with that Big Prize Check (G)...that's more than a 4:1 rpm ratio, and some alternators can supply substantial power at the low end, while running all day without damage at the high end. Others? Not nearly so much, they may put out 1/2 as much at the low end and risk overheating their bearings at the high end.


I guess that's one advantage to Balmar: They've got a fairly limited product range and they usually KNOW what each piece is better at doing. And of course, a nice paint job.(G)
Maybe you can get a 10SI with a lifetime warranty from Autozone, who may still be using JCI as a remanufacturer (I don't know) for ~$150, but their clerks won't know either. You'd have to ask them for "a 1980 Cadillac 350cu.in." or whatever that alternator actually shipped on. Preferably at a slow time of day when you can open boxes and look for the model number stamped on it, to be sure. Obviously, that's just one less expensive option--not necessarily the best way to go.
AS usual-any good product gets discontinued-
Seems to be lots of 10SI type & a 100amp version available on ebay.
My VP2003 has very limited space & will only accept a 10SI size frame.Currently it has a Paris Rhone? 55amp which is adequate for my use,& I can upgrade to a 100amp version-either a P-R or what awfully looks like a Delco.
100amp is the limit for single belt IMHO,& a double groove VP crank pulley from VP cost$$$$.
If I was long term cruising,I certainly would be looking to upgrade eveything-probably won't happen now-health & age .

Cheers/ Len
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 14:11   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tacoma, WA
Boat: Catalina 27 std rig
Posts: 25
Re: Alternator output cable sparkles...

Alternators make AC and the diode pack changes this to DC. The alternator doesn't know if it's turning clockwise or counter clockwise, and it doesn't matter to the function of the unit.
__________________
Eclipsed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 14:52   #24
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,310
Re: Alternator output cable sparkles...

As the OP noted, some alternator fans work better turning one direction than the other, so direction matters to these units.
__________________
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 16:24   #25
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: Alternator output cable sparkles...

Alternator fan draws air in from the rear and exhausts it out front. If you spin it backwards the diodes don't get cooled the way they should and that just may be the reason for this thread.
__________________
The Blue Dot Campaign. This Changes Everything.
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 18:01   #26
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,022
Re: Alternator output cable sparkles...

"Alternator fan draws air in from the rear and exhausts it out front"
Nope. Some alternators have one fan, some have dual fans in both front and rear. And if they were designed for modern automotive use, the fans are designed to boost cold air, flowing in from the front, past the alternator and towards the rear of the car.
In a modern car, everything under the hood is designed for laminar air flow to cool the engine compartment and reduce air drag. Everything. Trying to make the airflow in the alternator fight that, would be like, ah, *issing in the ocean to stop the tide.
It would also be pointless to take the HOT air from the diode frame, which is normally at the back of the alternator, and the push it over the rest of the components, overheating the regulator, windings, and frame.

Although I'm sure someone somewhere somehow has installed the entire alternator backwards, and then reversed the fan to match.(G)
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 20:50   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tacoma, WA
Boat: Catalina 27 std rig
Posts: 25
Re: Alternator output cable sparkles...

My Bad; the fans on most alternators are directional. Other than that it doesn't matter which direction it turns. The alternator on my Universal gas engine faces the rear, or is it the front, as the engine
is in backwards. With no directional air flow in the engine compartment it still doesn't matter.
__________________
Eclipsed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2015, 05:42   #28
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Alternator output cable sparkles...

Our Valeo and Balmar alternators take air in from the rear towards the front. AFAIK, most automobile alternators are the same (they make a reverse fan for the Corvair and other rear-engine cars). The main cooling need is the diodes, so they get the air first.

Mark
__________________

__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
alternator

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
high output alternator on 3YM30 Yanmar? c.spots Engines and Propulsion Systems 13 01-04-2012 15:53
Alternator output Benebobby Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 1 23-06-2011 14:40
Alternator Output Wiring idearat Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 28 28-12-2010 19:48
Alternator and Tach Output Issue harbin2 Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 2 05-05-2010 00:16
Alternator Output Amps captain465 Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 1 13-04-2010 12:40



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:34.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.