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Old 17-07-2019, 12:08   #1
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Alternator belt Slippage

Hi all, just trying to understand Alternator Drag.
There is a squeal and the pulleys are aligned, and tension is correct.. maybe on the tight side. The PO had the alternator mount replaced due to it was cracked, probably do to OverTightening in an attempt to stop the squeal.

the alternator is supposed to be a balmar.. but eldest longest term employee at balmar does not recognize when reviewing the images. It is most likely some other manf. He said that it takes 1 HP for every 25 watts, and v-belts are only good for up to 4 HP thus 100 watt alternator.

here is the question: If an alternator is correctly adjusted, but the v-belt cannot handle loads requested of it, and it squeals due to drag, can one reduce the demand by disconnecting one of the 4D house batteries... will this reduce the drag to where the v belt can provide enough friction.. this is not a permanent situation..
the boat has 2 AGM start batteries
2 AGM 4d house batteries
2000w inverter charger (not used until this is figured out)

if i place the battery selector switch to 1 or 2 but not both , does that reduce alternator demand?

in the future i will make sure the alternator is adequately sized, and add balmar's serpentine belt system if needed and perhaps a new alternator.
I'll try upload image of existing alternator
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Old 17-07-2019, 12:55   #2
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Re: Alternator belt Slippage

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...1&d=1563389587


http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...1&d=1563389604
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Old 17-07-2019, 12:57   #3
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Re: Alternator belt Slippage

Use of the Balmar external adjustable regulator

http://www.tadiesels.com/alternators...Balmar_FAQ.pdf

and Gates ‘Green Stripe’ HP belt has greatly reduced belt failure..
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Old 17-07-2019, 13:04   #4
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Re: Alternator belt Slippage

Yes I have external regulator.. not sure it is adjustable yet.
my question is mostly
IF I disconnect batteries does it change the Alternator Load? maybe just battery switch from 1 or 2 instead of Both.
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Old 17-07-2019, 13:09   #5
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Re: Alternator belt Slippage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiftybucks View Post
Yes I have external regulator.. not sure it is adjustable yet.
my question is mostly
IF I disconnect batteries does it change the Alternator Load? maybe just battery switch from 1 or 2 instead of Both.
disconnecting battery seems complicated, Balmar adjustment is simple
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Old 17-07-2019, 14:37   #6
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Re: Alternator belt Slippage

So jubilee. I can adjust the regulator down so the altternator request lower output?
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Old 17-07-2019, 14:44   #7
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Re: Alternator belt Slippage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiftybucks View Post
Hi all, just trying to understand Alternator Drag.
There is a squeal and the pulleys are aligned, and tension is correct.. maybe on the tight side. The PO had the alternator mount replaced due to it was cracked, probably do to OverTightening in an attempt to stop the squeal.

the alternator is supposed to be a balmar.. but eldest longest term employee at balmar does not recognize when reviewing the images. It is most likely some other manf. He said that it takes 1 HP for every 25 watts, and v-belts are only good for up to 4 HP thus 100 watt alternator.

here is the question: If an alternator is correctly adjusted, but the v-belt cannot handle loads requested of it, and it squeals due to drag, can one reduce the demand by disconnecting one of the 4D house batteries... will this reduce the drag to where the v belt can provide enough friction.. this is not a permanent situation..
the boat has 2 AGM start batteries
2 AGM 4d house batteries
2000w inverter charger (not used until this is figured out)

if i place the battery selector switch to 1 or 2 but not both , does that reduce alternator demand?

in the future i will make sure the alternator is adequately sized, and add balmar's serpentine belt system if needed and perhaps a new alternator.
I'll try upload image of existing alternator
A 100 W alternator at 12V would be limited to produce a little over 8 A. I think someone got their numbers wrong by a factor of about 10.
Are you sure the bearings aren't shot in that existing alternator?
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Old 17-07-2019, 14:48   #8
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Re: Alternator belt Slippage

Reducing the load demanded by the batteries may help as a workaround.

The de-rating - refusing to supply higher than X amps no matter the demand - ability of some external VRs like MC-614 is a more systemic approach, but of course that also means charging will take longer.

Moving to a multi-vee "serpentine" belt setup will allow producing more amps without slipping.

If you have the room and HP, may even want to go to a higher-amp alternator.

But likely will still want the adjustable VR to manage the output.
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Old 17-07-2019, 14:49   #9
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Re: Alternator belt Slippage

I had that issue, I also had two regulators. It screamed like a banshee with the Ample Power regulator and I just couldnt get rid of the problem. This occurred when I first started up and for maybe 10 minutes of full charging. I should have tried to adjust it but didn't know how at the time. Not so bad with a Balmar V lll regulator. It didn't put out so many amps. Yes you can adjust some regulators.
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Old 17-07-2019, 15:19   #10
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Re: Alternator belt Slippage

From your pictures, your fan belt is too long, you're at the end of the adjustment arm that's why you broke the fan blades. Fan belt could be stretched and glazed, get a new belt, the Gates Green Stripe/Fleet Runner of appropriate length and go from there. And you should get a new fan for the alternator if you want a shot at cooling that thing down.

As to your question, depends on how deeply your batteries are discharged. If lightly discharged then little to no affect. If deeply discharged then yes it could lighten the load on the alternator.
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Old 17-07-2019, 15:28   #11
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Re: Alternator belt Slippage

Chris from Balmar here: Removing a battery is a band-aid that will not help you much, except maybe reduce the time that your belt is squealing. I think when you were referring to watts, you meant amps, like a 100 amp alternator, not a 100w one. You have gotten some good advice about the belts. Good ones make a big difference, to a point.

With the belt off, make sure the alternator turns freely. You could have bearings going bad. Also, double check the alignment, bad alignment will heat things up terribly and make short work of belts.

Concerning your talk with our senior tech support rep, if he said it was most likely not ours, then I would trust that. I joke with him that he was born with an alternator in the mouth. ;>

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Old 17-07-2019, 16:03   #12
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Re: Alternator belt Slippage

Thx Chris. Of course I made that mistake and meant amps. Thx to all I think I have a better understanding as to how this can work in a band aide situation. I will see if regulator is adjustable and buy best gates green belt of correct length. A new alternator metal fan has now been installed.
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Old 17-07-2019, 16:32   #13
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Re: Alternator belt Slippage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiftybucks View Post
Hi all, just trying to understand Alternator Drag.
There is a squeal and the pulleys are aligned, and tension is correct..

How do you know? If you aren't measuring, you don't know.


Get a gauge. Too tight is bad. Not tight enough is bad. Test, don't guess.



https://www.amazon.com/Gates-91107-B.../dp/B000MUTAGS


Quote:

here is the question: If an alternator is correctly adjusted, but the v-belt cannot handle loads requested of it, and it squeals due to drag, can one reduce the demand by disconnecting one of the 4D house batteries... will this reduce the drag to where the v belt can provide enough friction.. this is not a permanent situation..
the boat has 2 AGM start batteries
2 AGM 4d house batteries
2000w inverter charger (not used until this is figured out)
Probably not, because a 4D AGM in good shape can draw all the amps the alternator can deliver.


Here are some choices for you:


1) Try a different belt. As noted upthread, the one you have is probably slightly too long, so get a shorter one. Look at the pulleys -- can they accept a larger (thicker) belt? If so, try that. (I looked at the photos and it appears they cannot)


2) Use a larger pulley on the alternator. This may reduce output slightly at idle, but, larger pulleys slip less. (You can also install a pulley with wider grooves and use a wider belt, which may help you even if the engine pulley isn't really large enough for the wider belt)


3) If you do not want to install a serpentine belt for reasons of cost or clearance, consider a double-V pulley.


4) Some regulators are adjustable, and that will solve your problem too. Depends on the regulator
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Old 17-07-2019, 16:36   #14
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Re: Alternator belt Slippage

Also from the belt routing it looks like a shorter belt may give you clearance problems in which case you probably need to modify that adjustment arm a little bit.
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Old 17-07-2019, 16:45   #15
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Re: Alternator belt Slippage

Also check that the pulleys are the same type. By this I mean the angle of the pulley faces. They should be the same and they should match the angle of the belt faces.

Notes on Pulleys and Belts
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