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**Ex-Calif** · 24-05-2012, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremiason

No one from the IMO or any other marine regulatory organization is going to come out to your boat and measure the angle of degrees on your navigation lights.

The official regulations require the lights to be:

Red an arc of 112.5 degrees
Green an arc f 112.5 degrees
White an are of 135 degrees

If you add that up, it makes 360 degree circle of light around your boat. That is what you are trying to achieve.

!

When I saw the photo my original thought was could they be seen at 112.5. out front no problem. But Mounted up near the bow it looks like the beam of the boat could interfere. Probably not but still a strange looking set up.

troppo · 24-05-2012, 16:56

Thank you all for your awesome suggestions. Up higher seems a much better idea. I'm thinking about either a LED combo light for the front of the pulpit or port and starboard LED lights mounted on the pulpit. Both will need some kind of a mount for the pulpit however if I go for two lights I can position them where two of the pulpit's bars join so probably better for securing the lights. On the other hand, a combo unit would be easier . . . .

Ultimately, what I want is to be easily seen at night and for the setup to be robust and long lasting. Nice bright lights up from down low so people can see em easily. And proper marine wire and robust connections.

RUSTYNAIL · 24-05-2012, 20:01

My biggest concern would be having them some place that you can replace the bulbs safely at night. If you travel a lot, it might be difficult to get replacement parts for your LED lights, so take extras. Having your lights low is just asking for trouble when you get hit by a wave or rub up on some floating debris at night. There's a lot of junk floating out there. Good visible nav lights can save your life as much as a radar reflector.

jeremiason · 25-05-2012, 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by RUSTYNAIL

My biggest concern would be having them some place that you can replace the bulbs safely at night. If you travel a lot, it might be difficult to get replacement parts for your LED lights, so take extras.

Most new LED running light fixtures (Aquasignal/Hella/etc...) are sealed and you cannot replce the bulb. If you use older fixtures, you can use the existing fixture and replace the incandesent bulb with LED light bulbs from Lunasea or Dr. LED.

Either way, an LED ligh bulb life is 50,000 hours or more. Off-Course your mileage my vary depending on use.

I don't worry about replacing one of my LED running lights, especially in the dark. If something fails, more then likely it will be the wires or the switches, which are subject to corrosion. In an emergency, we can always switch to the tricolor or use a hand held flashlight to get us through the night.

If you are a "Belt and Suspender" type guy, carry extra LED bulbs or new fixtures, but for the cost/storage factors I don't carry spare LED running lights.

I do carry several interior LED replacement bulbs, which have been sitting in the storage locker for the last four years.

Dennis.G · 25-05-2012, 09:16

My think:
Remove exisitng lens from each side and paint section toward rear from inside of lens to restrict rearward illumination. Repalce bulbs with LED retrofit types. Simple.

If you plan to do much night sailing off shore, consider adding masthead tri-color. If only bay sailing, not needed. Your low mounted lights will be difficult to see in ocean swells.

DotDun · 26-05-2012, 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremiason

No one from the IMO or any other marine regulatory organization is going to come out to your boat and measure the angle of degrees on your navigation lights.

The problem comes after a night time accident. An aggressive accident investigator *could* find fault with improperly aligned nav lights.

cal40john · 26-05-2012, 07:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremiason

No one from the IMO or any other marine regulatory organization is going to come out to your boat and measure the angle of degrees on your navigation lights.

Good luck!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DotDun

The problem comes after a night time accident. An aggressive accident investigator *could* find fault with improperly aligned nav lights.

This happened at our club. A drunk powerboater ran into our 26 footer which had factory lights installed in fore/aft flats molded in the hull. His lawyers had a surveyor come out and determine that the nav lights were deficient, I never found out in what way. He got out of most of the charges against him at that point.

troppo · 26-05-2012, 17:26

Getting the right angle of degrees with the nav lights can seem like the proverbial pain in the . . . ., however, I see it differently.

First, having done some night sailing/motoring, I noticed that some boats are easy to see and easy to know which way they are going and that made it safer for me. Others I could not see either at all or hardly at all and when they appear out of the black I sometimes jumped. I want to be one of those boats that make it safer for others and it will also make it safer for me.

Second, we have a general duty of care which has legal implications. If I take the time to ensure my lights and other safety gear is working as it should then I am ensuring my duty of care is being looked after. If my lights are not exactly to the right angle to five decimal places but if it is as good as any reasonable person is capable of getting it (which means a competent installation) then I am covered. 'Duty of care' does not require me to be superman or superwoman but it does require me to do a reasonably competent job. And if I take the time to find out how to do that reasonably competent job then I don't think there is any problems with achieving it. : ) Oh, when I first got my car driver's licence, I did a bad repair on the brakes of my old bomb and ran into another car. I learned that some stuff needs careful attention as it can seriously impact others.

barnakiel · 26-05-2012, 17:35

+1 for doing things to the best standards - I too hate (shout) boats lit like (beep) - this applies to us small shooters as well as to big cruise ships.

Be seen.

b.

hellosailor · 26-05-2012, 18:47

An agressive accident investigator could also find that your batteries were low or a wire was corroded, providing insufficient voltage and therefore less than the legally required brightness from perfectly aligned USCG approved nav lights.

Now go find a watercop who actually has ANY equipment capable of measuring 1/2 degree in light alignment, salong with the necessary certification and training to testify as an expert witness that your lights are not perfectly aligned when he writes you up for them.

"Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus."

If someone wants to hang you, they'll find a way. If you're going to obsess over half degrees of lighting, it probably would be better to stay ashore. How does the saying go? ""A ship in port is safe, but that's not what ships are built for."

**Ex-Calif** · 26-05-2012, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor

An agressive accident investigator could also find that your batteries were low or a wire was corroded, providing insufficient voltage and therefore less than the legally required brightness from perfectly aligned USCG approved nav lights.

Now go find a watercop who actually has ANY equipment capable of measuring 1/2 degree in light alignment, salong with the necessary certification and training to testify as an expert witness that your lights are not perfectly aligned when he writes you up for them.

"Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus."

If someone wants to hang you, they'll find a way. If you're going to obsess over half degrees of lighting, it probably would be better to stay ashore. How does the saying go? ""A ship in port is safe, but that's not what ships are built for."

I am sure your remember the long running thread about the lake accident in California.

Not to rehash that event but when someone dies, it gets serious. They were doing forensic tests on bulb filaments to determine if lights were even on.

Probably should post comments about that event in the original thread rather than drift this one.

When nothing happens, rules, lights, insurance etc. are moot. Cheap insurance to keep your boat in "legal" shape.

**Wotname** · 27-05-2012, 00:00

Perhaps as important and if I understand Troppo's position correctly, is getting the ali

troppo · 27-05-2012, 02:50

In my opinion, there will always be those aggressive investigators or poorly trained water police or someone else who wants to hang me up by the proverbials. No matter how perfect the boat, they will try and cause me trouble. However, and again in my opinion, those ones are in the minority and rather than focus on the minor although irritating things, I prefer to focus on the big picture. For me, the big picture is that I do what I can to ensure I follow safe practice. And there are a lot of officials out there who are doing a good job and I appreciate what they are doing.

At the end of the day, my asking questions on this forum and asking other folk about the navigation lights has given me heaps of understanding of the situation, and my lights, when I do 'em, are gunna be so much better than if I had not asked. So, I'm happy

.