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Old 11-02-2013, 13:44   #91
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Re: AGM vs Sealed Lead Acid Battery

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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
sh*t, I need to stop reading this stuff, now I need to pull my batteries out and check to see if they have been spilling (since I rarel have to water them I think mine are OK)
Some batteries will spill at 20 degrees and some not until 30+ degrees, even if in the wrong orientation. Newer hull designs, like your Hunter, tend to heel less than older narrower designs. So, even if they are in the non-optimal orientation you may only be uncovering plates but not prone to spilling.

The most spillage I see is with batteries that have off-set fill/vent caps..
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Old 11-02-2013, 23:03   #92
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Re: AGM vs Sealed Lead Acid Battery

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
All that indicates is that until before you "went on the hook", teh shore system was disguising the fact that the AGMS were probably dead years ago, Its not any indication that they lasted 10 years. In fact I would say from my experience AGMs last less.

Dave
We have been living and cruising aboard our boat with a family of 4 since Sept of 2005. We have LifeLine AGM's and are only now starting to show signs of Age. I usally only go to the dock about 3 times a year to put fuel in the Boat. I also do this every day for a living, that being said I would not have a problem using AGM's as from what I see in the field every day, they preform like a Gel but Take the abuse like a Wet Cell. These days the Charge rates between an AGM and a Wet Cell are almost the same and some of the newer AGM's are exceeding what a Wet Cell would take. As a note I start off my charge rate at 325amps after about 30min its down to around 250 and after another hr or so at about 150 and then so on.

Hope this helps
Cameron
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Old 12-02-2013, 07:59   #93
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Re: AGM vs Sealed Lead Acid Battery

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
LOL Looks like I am doing something correct for a change Just think for a moment! Who would spend all this time talking about their car or house???
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Old 13-02-2013, 07:32   #94
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Re: Agm vs Sealed lead acid

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
G'Day MS,

That's really interesting info, and it reflects my observations around the cruising fleet. I wonder what that sort of analysis would say about T-105s or other decent quality flooded batteries?

It would be great to be able to achieve category one status, but for those without gen sets it would be difficult. A really big solar bank (relative to usage) might do it, but dark days could mess up the schedule.

Anyhow, thanks for posting that... should open a few eyes!

Cheers,

Jim
Even with a genset, you're not going to get into Category 1 if you are off-grid -- that is, if your boat is not kept on shore power most of the time. You'd have to run your gen set all day long on a regular basis to do that, which is just not reasonable.

I am in Category #3, mostly, since my boat lives on a mooring and I rarely have shore power while cruising. I do get a really good full charge if I motor, but here in the English Channel we almost always have wind so I'm rarely motoring anywhere. I run my genset once or twice a day when I'm anchored or on my mooring, but hardly ever get the batts over 80% that way before it's time to shut it down again.

I do sometimes go into port just as an excuse to leave the batts on charger overnight, but I would not say that I average a full charge each and every week.

I bought a Honda EU100i charger as a backup to my genset, but actually mostly just to run all day on my last day aboard before leaving the boat on the mooring for a few weeks, so that I am leaving the batteries with a nice full charge without knackering my diesel genset with a long low-load run.


All this of course is utter nonsense which we will not suffer once Lithium FePo4 batteries are ready for prime time. I can't wait!
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Old 13-02-2013, 08:14   #95
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Re: Agm vs Sealed lead acid

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
All this of course is utter nonsense which we will not suffer once Lithium FePo4 batteries are ready for prime time. I can't wait!
I think we are very close to balance point where Lithium batteries start to become more attractive than LA for cruising sailors. I don't think we quite there yet, but for a boat getting the majority of its energy from a generator, the high charge acceptance of lithium means the tide has already turned.
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Old 14-02-2013, 08:20   #96
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Re: Agm vs Sealed lead acid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Even with a genset, you're not going to get into Category 1 if you are off-grid -- that is, if your boat is not kept on shore power most of the time. You'd have to run your gen set all day long on a regular basis to do that, which is just not reasonable.

I am in Category #3, mostly, since my boat lives on a mooring and I rarely have shore power while cruising. I do get a really good full charge if I motor, but here in the English Channel we almost always have wind so I'm rarely motoring anywhere. I run my genset once or twice a day when I'm anchored or on my mooring, but hardly ever get the batts over 80% that way before it's time to shut it down again.

I do sometimes go into port just as an excuse to leave the batts on charger overnight, but I would not say that I average a full charge each and every week.

I bought a Honda EU100i charger as a backup to my genset, but actually mostly just to run all day on my last day aboard before leaving the boat on the mooring for a few weeks, so that I am leaving the batteries with a nice full charge without knackering my diesel genset with a long low-load run.


All this of course is utter nonsense which we will not suffer once Lithium FePo4 batteries are ready for prime time. I can't wait!
Ready now but only to 6 volts.
One Laptop per Child
This type of battery technology is used on the One Laptop per Child (OLPC) project. The batteries are manufactured by BYD Company of Shenzhen, China, the world's largest producer of Li-ion batteries.

OLPC uses LFP batteries in its XO laptops because they contain no toxic heavy metals in compliance with the European Union's Restriction of Hazardous Substances Directive.

Vehicles
LFP batteries were featured on the November 5, 2008 episode of Prototype This!. They were used as the power source for a hexapod (walking) vehicle.[citation needed]
This battery is used in the electric cars made by Aptera[15] and QUICC.
Killacycle, the worlds fastest electric motorcycle, uses lithium iron phosphate batteries.

Roehr Motorcycle Company, uses a 5.8 kWh capacity LFP battery pack to power its supersport electric motorcycle.[citation needed]
LFP batteries are used by electric vehicles manufacturer Smith Electric Vehicles to power its products.[citation needed]
Minneapolis Electric Bike and Chicago Electric Bicycles use LFP batteries.

BYD, also a car manufacturer, plans to use its lithium iron phosphate batteries to power its PHEV, the F3DM and F6DM (Dual Mode), which will be the first commercial dual-mode electric car in the world. It plans to mass produce the cars in 2009.

In May 2007 Lithium Technology Corp. announced a Lithium Iron Phosphate battery with cells large enough for use in hybrid cars, claiming they are "the largest cells of their kind in the world.".
Some electronic cigarettes use these types of batteries.

Shorai Inc. makes lithium-iron batteries for a variety of powersport vehicles (motorcycles, ATVs, etc...)

Rimac Automobili have developed an advanced LFP battery system with integrated battery management and liquid cooling systems, primarily for their Concept One electric supercar which will enter production but also for commercial availability of the battery system.

RC model cars may use these batteries, especially as RX and TX packs as a direct replacement of NiMh packs or LiPo packs without need for voltage regulator, as they provide 6.6v nominal voltage over 7.4v of LiPo packs, which is little higher and may require to be regulated down to 6.0v. With thanks to Wilipedia
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Old 14-02-2013, 08:29   #97
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Re: Agm vs Sealed lead acid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitain Mike View Post
Ready now but only to 6 volts.
One Laptop per Child
This type of battery technology is used on the One Laptop per Child (OLPC) project. The batteries are manufactured by BYD Company of Shenzhen, China, the world's largest producer of Li-ion batteries.

OLPC uses LFP batteries in its XO laptops because they contain no toxic heavy metals in compliance with the European Union's Restriction of Hazardous Substances Directive.

Vehicles
LFP batteries were featured on the November 5, 2008 episode of Prototype This!. They were used as the power source for a hexapod (walking) vehicle.[citation needed]
This battery is used in the electric cars made by Aptera[15] and QUICC.
Killacycle, the worlds fastest electric motorcycle, uses lithium iron phosphate batteries.

Roehr Motorcycle Company, uses a 5.8 kWh capacity LFP battery pack to power its supersport electric motorcycle.[citation needed]
LFP batteries are used by electric vehicles manufacturer Smith Electric Vehicles to power its products.[citation needed]
Minneapolis Electric Bike and Chicago Electric Bicycles use LFP batteries.

BYD, also a car manufacturer, plans to use its lithium iron phosphate batteries to power its PHEV, the F3DM and F6DM (Dual Mode), which will be the first commercial dual-mode electric car in the world. It plans to mass produce the cars in 2009.

In May 2007 Lithium Technology Corp. announced a Lithium Iron Phosphate battery with cells large enough for use in hybrid cars, claiming they are "the largest cells of their kind in the world.".
Some electronic cigarettes use these types of batteries.

Shorai Inc. makes lithium-iron batteries for a variety of powersport vehicles (motorcycles, ATVs, etc...)

Rimac Automobili have developed an advanced LFP battery system with integrated battery management and liquid cooling systems, primarily for their Concept One electric supercar which will enter production but also for commercial availability of the battery system.

RC model cars may use these batteries, especially as RX and TX packs as a direct replacement of NiMh packs or LiPo packs without need for voltage regulator, as they provide 6.6v nominal voltage over 7.4v of LiPo packs, which is little higher and may require to be regulated down to 6.0v. With thanks to Wilipedia
I think we're very close, but I agree with Noelex that we're not quite there yet. Just look at the Boeing fiasco to see how elusive full and complete development of this technology is.

Some of our members are developing their own systems -- actually doing the technical development work themselves. They're doing it for fun, I guess, and it sure benefits the rest of us.

It's cool that the cost per usable amp/hour of capacity is now already in line with lead-acid prices. That's a great milestone! Now we just need to have a fully developed battery pack cum BMS system that's plug and play, and warranted to work for a couple of years by a respectable company, at lead-acid prices. Then I think the whole market will massively move over to this technology, and lead acid will basically die out. The advantages are H U G E, and not just acceptance rates. I can't wait!
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Old 14-02-2013, 09:10   #98
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Re: AGM vs Sealed Lead Acid Battery

Mike, your quote is the best:


"Please Lord be kind to me your sea is so wide and my boat is so small"


The ocean is truly humbling, like standing at the rim of the Grand Canyon, our illusions just fade.
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Old 14-02-2013, 11:54   #99
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Re: Agm vs Sealed lead acid

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Originally Posted by Capitain Mike View Post
Ready now but only to 6 volts.
Ready now but only to multiples of 3.2V... each LiFePO4 cell is nominally 3.2V, add as many in series as you need to get your desired voltage. It sounds like those hobby packs are just using two in series.
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Old 14-02-2013, 12:05   #100
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Re: AGM vs Sealed Lead Acid Battery

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Originally Posted by oceansong1 View Post
Mike, your quote is the best:


"Please Lord be kind to me your sea is so wide and my boat is so small"


The ocean is truly humbling, like standing at the rim of the Grand Canyon, our illusions just fade.
Look at the Universe and we are nothing!!!
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